Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Discussions

Hi Cossack

Yes I agree a lovely and thoughtful and very interesting post.
On the bite side, my 2 do not bite at all. At dog training one night the trainer actually tried to encourage Maelona to go on the bite on his arm in play and he was amazed that she was just not interested in doing this. He said a gsd of the same age would gladly have had a chew of his arm. They are very loving and would gladly lick and love you to death. However at the same time they have a very strong hunting instinct and have done a couple of very minor kills (a young duck and a very large rat), that said they just played with their 'kills' and didn't really know what to do with it, despite the fact that they are raw fed so do recognise raw food (but obviously not with fur or feathers on ).
I too am not bothered either way about czech wolfdogs themselves being in this country. What I AM bothered about is the almost predictable conclusion of what will be happening a few years down the line and the fact that people will get them for their name rather than for what they are, leading to all sorts of scenarios - none of them good for the dogs. Wolf hybrids and Czech Wolfdogs in the right and knowledgeable hands are fine, but we all know that will not be the end of it. I think any animal can become dangerous in the wrong and uneducated hands, instinct takes over and they automatically defend themselves against the aggressor - 99% of the time a human who has taught them this behaviour by constant mistreatment and mismanagement.

Hi Cossak
Yes, it is a lovely post, thanks for it.

I wanted to focus on the aspect mentioned by tawneywolf- I managed to look through the webpages of the two UK breeders before they were removed and now I better understand your worries and reservations.

One of them is a webpage of a reliable, honest British breeder, who brought his CSV wolfdogs to UK legally before they were banned by Defra. He had all necessary permissions of the Kennel Club etc. and he breeds CSVs with great care and responsiblity making sure the dogs (parents) have X-rayed hips and elbows, are well socialised, bonitated, trained etc. and the pups go to good homes. He is well known among the breeders of CSV wolfdogs and for the last few years the whole community has been helping him to gain recognition for CSVs in the UK.

However the second webpage is peculiar - the author does not seems to see the difference between wolf and dog mixes /hybrids (relatively popular in the US) and the well established breed called CSV wolfdog. Some of the texts written are most awkward. What's more, I recognised one of the photos and informed about it my friend - the author of the photograph.
Here is her declaration:

"If the author of Hebrideanwolfdog webpage wants to keep dogs like prisoners and make strange experiments with various wolf crosses disregarding the dogs wellness and at the same time ruining the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog breed, especially the dogs’ mental stability and predictability which the breeders managed to obtain over the years, I strongly protest against his using a stolen photograph of my dog - Cheitan z Peronowki to advertise such a dubious enterprise.

Cheitan is a typical representative of CSV breed and will be used only for reliable and fair breeding. I consider such behaviour as the above most unethical.

Agnieszka B., Warsaw, Poland
(By the way - I live in a flat in the center of the capital city, keep my dog neither chained nor in a brick kennel, and believe me or not - he does not demolish my home)"

He also gave a link to the biggest CSV wolfdogs database calling it the "UK based webpage", which is not true. The server is based in Poland and has several international admins, none of them from the UK.

On the other hand, I know people whose CSV wolfdogs won first prizes at the World Dog Championship, which in 2006 was held in Poznan. Among them was a beautiful CSV bitch from Lithuania, Harmonia Eden Severu, and a Youth Winner - Eury z Peronowki. It was such a pity their owners could not bring them to Crufts. According to the FCI regulations they had a right to present their dogs, but their applications were turned away due to internal UK regulations.... I think that at least this should be changed!

i think its a big shame you cant have the the c wolfdog as pets in the uk, in the right hands like all dogs they would be a lovely dog to have i can actually imagine them being quite friendly any dog can be nasty if provoked and and treated the wrong way, wolfs and wolfdogs have bad press,no dog can be fully trusted just like humans there is bad and good i would never leave a dog nomatter what breed with a child so it isnt just wild dogs or half wolfs its any type of dog that can turn but we still have normal dogs as pets dont we??i had the honour of meeting some wild wolfs afew years ago and got to stroke them and they were so soft one layed down even to let me rub its belly lol there isnt alot of difference in pet and wild apart from wild are born in the wild and have to defend for them selfs and look after there young finding them food,im sure if a pet dog got lost for weeks alone it would find its wild instinct and hunt for food and even fight for it,so i dont know mixed feelings whether the c wolfdog should be a pet!!!

rona your very lucky to own one.

Yes, I know Tina's 13 and a half, still runs & swims though recently her heart has been getting weaker. I can let her unleashed in any park and she's always been very friendly with people, children and other dogs. Every day we appreciate her still being with us.

My 2 are very friendly with all dogs. This afternoon they have played with 2 Munsterlanders and a collie cross, 3 Great Danes and a Rottie, also a Golden Retriever that we see quite a lot, she is very overawed by their continued bounciness so often hides behind her owner, however she is getting a bit braver now and coming out to play a bit.
They are not at all aggressive in any way with other dogs, however there has been the odd dog that has really gone for them big style and they have retaliated, but only growling and hair up and lots of general mouthiness.
Congratulations on Tina reaching the age of 13, that is some age for any dog. My girl Tawney reached the age of 12 before having a final stroke nearly a year ago and I decided to let her go, very sadly missed even now.

I'm sorry, I can imagine how much you must miss her...:-(

CSVs are very emphatic with their pack, most of them have quite "strong" (in the sense of individualist) personalities which they manage to display when contacting people. Most of our friends and relatives, even those who aren't dog lovers, treat Tina as an important member of our family - when inviting us to their homes, they also invite her, prepare special food for her, etc. There is something in her personality, way of looking, reacting, which attracts even strangers in the park, who come and start talking to her. We had always felt that she was special and unique - even before we learnt that she was a CSVs wolfdog...

But I've met several CSVs now and I know that their being incredibly smart and having visibly individualist character is a typical feature the breed.

I love to hear about the qualities of the dogs, including CSVs that make them so appealing to their owners. it is always so hard to lose one but the time we have them I think is so special. I really hope that they find a compromise for all the responsible CSV owners as it is a shame to not be able to show at Crufts when you have earned the right.
Perhaps the Kennel Club should spend some of the money from their membership and other charges in trying to bring about changes that suit the needs of the owners and society today, instead of the government agencies and legislators running round setting laws and regulations that penalise the responsible owners, whilst not actually stopping those who are a danger to dogs and the public.
If enough people care, and this web site proves they do, then eventually they have to listen.

I'm not sure if any of you are aware of the petition that is collecting names for the uk to allow CWDogs. Here are details if you wish to add your names. Thanks This is part of the e-mail i received after signing it!

the petition Czech Wolfdog UK.
To return to the petition, please go to:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/279438817
You will receive a confirmation of this signature

have signed it but think it is highly unlikely they will be allowed in, especially with all the Pit Bull stuff still flying about.

This would require a complete change to the DWA and I think it unlikely, same as there is little chance of having the banned breeds removed from the DDA.
Becky

I know but there are always idiots when it comes to animals lets just hope that people understand that these are just a differant type of dog and they are loving and gentle in the right hands!

I've signed it, but I do have to agree with TW.

Hopefully there'll be a teeny bit of light at the end of the tunnel

The problem is they may well end up with the same image issues at pitbulls, the morons who want to own a 'wolf' and then we will have the pitbull saga all over again :-(
Becky

Oh I do adore these dogs so very much! They're beautiful in every way!
Okay, so, being from the states, I know a few people with CSW and wolf hybrids as well. And I do have to say that I very VERY rarely hear of problems resulting from wolfdogs/hybrids other than the occasional 'wolf hybrid attacks kid' press story-which seems always to be the result of poor ownership by people that have a multitude of wild animals on a farm (bears, cougars, tigers, high-content wolf hybrids, etc) But I've never heard anything nasty about the CSW. Not even from the press.
I've never even heard of a CSW or hybrid being used for the wrong purposes either. Of course, the USA culture is different from that of Europe/UK, but we're all human, and honestly we really aren't all that different. The most problems I hear of are pitbull and rotweiler problems, but it seems to me that even those are becoming less and less of an issue (Thank goodness!)
But of course, anywhere, it doesnt matter what country youre in, there are going to be problems, with any breed.

I'm just pointing out that despite all the dog problems we have here, I very very rarely hear of them being from wolfdogs/wolf hybrids.Granted, my ears aren't open to every single happening here in the states, and I'm not expert on any of this, I'm just putting in my say

the thing is that these dogs could end up in the same situation as lots of what are perceived as 'macho' dogs.
I get loads of people saying to me how like a wolf my 2 are and then the next thing is 'will they bite?' I always say why should they? Have you done anything to them? It is people's perceptions that need to change first, and judging by the pitbull fiasco that is not happening. I would rather protect the dogs by keeping them out of the country.

It's completely understandable. I'm not entirely sure about how I feel about allowing them to be brought into England, but I'd have to say that I am leaning towards 'not a good idea' simply for the well-being of the individual dogs, and purity of the breed (as people will probobly start breeding them with other dogs, then claim the lines to be pure CSW)
Hopefully with enough education and such people will learn that they're not what they're 'thought' to be, and that they don't make good macho dogs, guard dogs, fighting dogs, or any other misconception they have.

I think it's mainly the fact that man feels superior and powerful when he dominates somthing that is seen as 'wild', and the word 'wolf' brings about thoughts of a wild, untamable, vicious animal. Poor things. Hopefully people will learn =[

(of course thats not to say that people dont already mix the breed with others and claim them to be pure CSW, but I'm just saying.)

As much as I'd love to own a CSW, I know that bringing them into this country would be catastrophic. As soon as you mention anything to do with wolves (be it hybrid or not) there seems to be some sort of hysteria that emerges :-(

I've been on the tail end of 'dangerous dogs' I'd hate to think that these beautiful dogs would suffer the same fate

I agree with this on one hand - on the other I feel that NI and Ute's can easily fill that void even if we never officially have the breed recognized here.

As an NI owner I feel it a bit hypocritical to say I wouldn't like to see them here because of people wanting them for the 'wolf' comparrison - when our dogs are known for the 'wolf look'.

Many people wanting to own a 'wolf' can just as easy try to aquire NI, Ute's, Tamaskan, Huskies, Mals even GSD and certain crosses etc etc...If they were the wrong sort of people any of these dogs in their hands would be horrible for any of the breeds.

If someone wants a dog to look hard they will get a dog no matter what, if a particular breed is unavailable to them they will settle for another.

It doesn't even matter what the breed is called because I'm sure any idiot wanting to call their dog a wolf x does and will no matter.

The look of my dogs was a big factor in the reason I first became interested I love wolfy looking dogs (so long as the temprament is good also) the look of wolves may be a big factor in alot of people being interested in some breeds and I would love to see a breed such as the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog here and when you think about it if people could have access and knowledge of these dogs it might well help put a stop to twits breeding anything that passes for a wolfy looking dog for the reason of looks alone, with no thought of temprament or health.

The Czechoslovakian Wolfdog has a proven track record and personally I would rather people interested in this type of dog could find out more about it, out in the open, rather than looking for alternatives being taken in by some person churning out all sorts of crosses leaving the potential owner unaware of what they even have.

If things are pushed 'underground' that's where many problems begin. The way things currently are with Czechoslovoakin Wolfdogs if you want one you can get one but it would all have to be very secretive which can then lead to misinformation and communication problems only leading to issues for the dogs - I don't see the current situation as being good for the breed at all and would love to see a change in the legislation.