DNA Checked General Chat

Discussion in 'Belgian Shepherd Dog (Malinois)' started by Varmint, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Varmint

    Varmint New Member

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    DNA Checked

    I am sure that most everyone will "poo-poo" away the results of a doggy DNA test. Well, I rescued a dog from the shelter a few months ago. He was listed as a 6 mos. old Dutch Shepherd. Having my doubts, I sent off "Boscoe's" DNA to Wisdom Panel. The results came back that he was Golden Retriever (50%), Belgian Malinois (25%), German Shepherd Dog (12.5%), Hungarian Viszla (12.5%). Other than the brindle coloring and the ears, this dog is RULED by his 25% Malinois DNA! Boscoe is fun as heck but man, does he like to bite and chew! I give him knuckles and he chews them all down to the size of a golf ball. He's an awesome member of our pack and I am so glad that he rescued my family. God bless the Malinois!

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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  3. Bulldogs4Life

    Bulldogs4Life Member

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  4. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    @Bulldogs4Life Why do you say that the Brindle could come from the Golden Retriever? I have never seen a Golden that was anything other than a shade of gold. Yes, they probably did developed from the yellow 'sports' that used to crop up in Flatcoat litters, but Flatties are all solid coloured too.
    I have had Goldens that had the permissible tiny white chest tick, and I did have a dog that had a black spot on his lower lip hair, but never any other colour but gold on the body.
  5. Bulldogs4Life

    Bulldogs4Life Member

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    Since they are recessive red and therefore not able to produce eumelanin they could potentially hide any such color. There was also a litter of Golden x Malinois that had brindles. It as unintentional, but with known parents. I'd say even with breed histories we can only go back so far, the origins of a breed might be known but how far back can the ancestors of those founders be traced? I'm not a Golden Retriever expert, but from what I understand they came from St John's Water dog (could carry brindle, what is their history?), Tweed Water Spaniel (liver color = chocolate could also carry for brindle history of this breed?). As well as other black and yellow (possible recessive red?) retriever types just as with the Labrador which also carries brindle and tan point.

    Besides the fact it is also proven with genetic testing and seen at times when a Golden or Lab is crossed to a non recessive red dog. These are the genotypes for just a couple of the Goldens tested, of which the 100s tested in the database basically have the same / similar results.
    Within the breed recessive red is set and found to be in 100%, 90% of Goldens tested has either an allele for black or allele for brindle (can be any combo), 100% have at least one allele for tan point (over 60% homozygous, while 37% carry recessive black).

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    Labs which are related have similar genetics, however only around 77% tested for recessive yellow, as we know and can clearly see there are black / chocolate Labs. 99% likely having at least one allele for dominant black but possibly carrying brindle, 99% with at least one allele for tan point, 25% of those having recessive black, with less than 2% of the vast number of dogs tested having an allele for dominant red/yellow and most all being dominant black it's no wonder tan point / brindle is rarely seen.

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  6. Bulldogs4Life

    Bulldogs4Life Member

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    Speaking on Flat Coats they are all visually black with most probably being homozygous for dominant black (not that its impossible a few could harbor brindle, just not something I've heard and think it's very unlikely. Unlike in the Golden or Lab, it either never existed or was lost), but like their relatives the Golden and Lab tan point is common with 100% having at least one allele for it and 63% having an allele for recessive black.

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  7. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Ha Ha, I knew you would tie me up with genotypes.
    I think the St. John's Water Dog theory has been dropped, along with those mythical Russian circus dogs. You are quite right about the Tweed Water Spaniel though - which is a problem as they became extinct, and nobody now knows what they looked like.

    According to fairly recent detailed research carried out by Val Foss, et al., it seems that Lord Tweedmouth mated the original Yellow Flatcoat to a Tweed Water Spaniel, but then used an 'occasional' Irish Setter, a second Tweed Water Spaniel, and a Black Flatcoat to establish his own strain of Retrievers at Guisechan. He found that the line bred true to type, and the puppies were placed with friends and relatives, including Lord Ilchester, who also bred the dogs, and these became the foundation of the breed as we know it today.

    The next time I see Val, I will ask her about her views on the likelihood of the breed throwing brindle. Thank you for taking the time to present all your evidence though - I will try to take it in, but to be honest, it makes my head spin, and at 75 there is not enough spare capacity in my brain to internalise much more.

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