EPI (Endocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency). General Chat

Discussion in 'Akita' started by Branjo Snow, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    I hope you see an improvement soon. Best wishes for Luna's future health.
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  3. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Best wishes [and love] for Luna and you too Branjo. I did have a quick look at Pereg's test results - she had to have regular full blood tests every three months, but some had to be done every six months, and for those her blood had to be sent to a specialist laboratory. The full thyroid panel was only needed yearly if the previously six monthly one was not as it should be. But the numbers here are not always the same as in other countries so it is difficult for me to compare.

    Plus she had a totally different problem and it was only through the blood tests that we were able to know how her medication was doing and/or if it was causing problems.
  4. My bear Yoji

    My bear Yoji Member

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    As you say, what a relief !
    Let’s hope there is an improvement quickly
  5. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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    It must be a relief to have her diagnosed, and I hope she is improving.

    Studies shows EPI is believed to be genetic, though the exact mode of inheritance is unknown. Research is currently being done to try and find a genetic marker so that carriers can be identified.
    The Maya Metabolomic Study
    http://www.epi4dogs.com/epi-research-facts
  6. Branjo Snow

    Branjo Snow New Member

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    Yeah it is for sure, just wish the enzymes at gotten here already, with the timing of my order and the holiday, its behind schedule. Still she remains the same happy dog though.

    Yeah the vet also said they really don't know why it springs up in young dogs the way it does. I'm thinking about the thousands of dogs that looked starving and were put down and it was probably something like this.
  7. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Slowly slowly Banjo - the necessary enzymes will arrive and you should then see a great improvement in Luna's health. In which case you will always be able to have a stock in place.

    I still think regular blood tests the way to go, with a major full Thyroid panel done every six months should tell how and if the enzymes are working as they should,
  8. Branjo Snow

    Branjo Snow New Member

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    Update: (lotta poop talk)

    Well the enzymes finally arrived, Yesterday I gave her 1.5 cups of the TOTW kibble, with a teaspoon of the x6 enzyme soaking with temperate water for about 20 mins. I did this for both her meals. This morning I took her out and her poop was basically normal looking again. Maybe she got lucky, I obviously don't want to count my chickens n all just yet, but she had an instant positive reaction to the enzyme it seems.

    Her poop had improved a tiny bit over the week because I realized I might have had a hand in causing this or maybe even postponing it. I was concerned about bloat when I first got Luna cause of all the Akita specific sites saying how this is life threatening n all. So me being me, I tried to avoid this buy soaking the food in water before I gave it to her. I did this from she was a puppy.

    The soaking probably activated the "bare minimum" enzymes in the dog kibble and that was maybe just getting her by. When she reached 10 months I stopped soaking it, because she was bigger than my husky and he at his mostly dry too. So I just fed them the same since. That's probably when she started losing the weight and her poop began to change consistency.

    So with the enzymes locked in the post that week, I started to get back into the habit of soaking her food because its a necessity to let the enzymes soak. I noticed that her poop was not runny but 'loose' like it came out in one continuous flow, like an ice cream dispenser (sorry for the graphic analogy), but I could at least pick it off the snow. The snow covered grass outside my house was starting to look like a shiticane had came roaring through it.

    Then today after just 2 meals, it was normal looking and came out normal too. I weighed her before and she was 57.2lbs which means the soaking of the basic kibble must have helped a bit because she was 55lbs after her last vet visit for the CLI test. Also have to note that she finished the Metronidazole too, which seemed to have no effect on her 'kind' of poop other than reducing her need to go. It could and probably did help with bacteria eradication too.

    I will get her Thyroid done correctly this time Malka, still bummed I didn't read the fine print of the insurance (basic thyroid), So a full panel is on the list.

    I also have to factor in a lifetime of the enzymes into my budget now. Its actually nowhere near as bad from enzymediane.com as it would be over the vets counter. I think when I looked you could get a years supply for something like 300 - 400 bucks. I think we all probably spend that on coffee and donuts etc in a year.

    The vet was looking $150 for 2-3 weeks supply. I got the $50 x6 pack from enzymediane which if my dosage is enough will do her for about a month and a half. That gives me enough time to know the sweet spot. After 2 weeks if she is putting the weight back on I will take her to the vet and if he's happy with her, I'll buy a larger bulk amount.

    Fingers crossed.
  9. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    I am glad that you have had such an immediate result.
    A question. As you now know that Luna does suffer from exocrine pancreatic enzyme deficiency, why are you having further thyroid tests done? Is it that the vet was worried about her T4 level, or just because hypothyroidism is a common problem in the breed?
    I think you you will see a big improvement now she is getting supplementary enzymes. It probably won't affect you if you feed kibble, but remember that having this condition means that she can only digest as much fat as those enzymes will allow, so best to stick to a fairly low fat diet.
  10. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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    Good to hear things are improving, on my Gsd forum enzymediane.com.is highly recommended.
    When you see the difference between dry and soaked food it's actually quite scary, I don't soak it as such, but add a small amount of warm water for a few mins before feeding.

    Bloat Gdv study
    The risk of GDV was increased 4.2-fold (or 320%) in dogs that consumed dry foods containing citric acid that were also moistened prior to feeding by owners

    Dry foods containing a rendered meat meal with bone among the first four ingredients significantly GDV risk by 53.0%."

    http://www.moonstruckmeadows.com/Bloat (GDV) Study.htm
  11. Branjo Snow

    Branjo Snow New Member

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    Yeah Carole thyroid issues are pretty common for this and a couple of other breeds, its just the piece of mind ya know. Plus Akita's can get vicious all of a sudden as a symptom of thyroid problems, I'd like to avoid that lol.

    Interesting article GsdSlave, scary is how many people buy their dogs those raised bowls, and the increase it causes in bloat cases, I've came close to trying one of those things before too, yikes!
  12. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Fairly normal for here!

    As you now have a correct diagnosis of EPI I do not think that any further Thyroid panels should be necessary - unless maybe just yearly for your peace of mind. I had no choice - the tests had to be done for my beloved Pereg. Regarding the cost of enzymes into your budget now - again I had no choice for my girls Phenobarbitone, which was prescription only.

    We love our furkids and will do everything we can for them. Right?
  13. Branjo Snow

    Branjo Snow New Member

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    Malka likes this.
    Right.
  14. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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    There was a time when raised feeders were recommended for large breeds, but that advice has since been reversed.
    There are many factors to bloat and we can lower risks but with no guarantees as there does not appear to be any clear cut way to avoid it.
    I lost a Gsd to bloat, one can do all the "right" things, and it can still happen.
  15. Branjo Snow

    Branjo Snow New Member

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    GsdSlave likes this.
    Sorry to hear that GS, horrible times.
  16. Branjo Snow

    Branjo Snow New Member

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    Just a quick update on Luna's progress 1 month after her EPI diagnosis and enzyme treatment.

    First off it really did take 24 hours for her poop to return to normal, her energy is back with force and my poor Husky is getting his butt kicked during play time again.

    Her weight had dropped to 54lbs and now she is 64lbs and feels solid all over. The help and advice I received here and on the EPI4Dogs site was invaluable to me and has saved my girls life without a doubt.

    Thank you all so much for your support.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018
  17. Branjo Snow

    Branjo Snow New Member

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    [​IMG]

    That's a happy dog right there :)
  18. Malka

    Malka Member

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    That is a gorgeous happy dog! :038:
  19. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    She is gorgeous!

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