New Pup, Am Bulldog X Boerboel, American Bandogge? Controversial

I just get soooo frustrated when people who seem to love dogs, then go and HELP puppy farms and backyard breeders. Meanwhile there are rescues crammed full of lovely dogs desperate for caring new owners.

I have nothing against folk going to good breeders, of course. But to support this bloke who allowed two pet dogs to mate, and who now seems to be fibbing or downright lying about the breed of one of the parents.... It's appalling.

as a rescue committee member, we will rehome bull breeds to people with children providing they are used to kids, and we would also rehome a bull breed pup with a child as long as prospective adopter could show they knew what to expect etc.. so would be worth speaking to more than one rescue....

Bear in mind with a pup you need to do bite inhibition etc and if you get said pup at 6 weeks old they won't get that vitally with their litter mates and will use your daughter instead - and thats not going to make her any better with the dog... I honestly urge You to really heed the advice given, and rethink this particular pup or at least get the "breeder" to keep it for the minimum 8 weeks.

You haven't had a pup for 13+ years and perhaps have forgotten the stages they entail and with a 2 yr old in the house too, I don't think its the best plan to go with this particular one.

I know... but sometimes it's h a r d to walk away from a puppy you fall in love with. I think if I ever found a pup that looked and acted like Rocky I could probably not bring myself to say no. Sometimes it's just hard

And of course BYBs full well know that - that's why I think legislation is the only way to tackle this.

i dont beleive for a second he is a backyard breeder he seems a honest genuine well spoken bloke, he mated them before and this time was a accident which is why he is selling them cheaper than the planned litter. i dont see how not knowing parents will be a issue on tempermant... whatever breed they are there are no bad mixes or bad breeds only bad owners. with the right training and socialising any puppy and puppy breed will be a great loving dog. if he was a backyard breeder theyd be more money and advertised as guard dogs, bandogges etc...not to loving homes like his are. even if he is a backyard breeder eitherway the pups are going to sell to someone so why shouldnt i buy it when im not going to fight it, train it to attack or use it to breed, if it means supporting a backyard breeder then its a small price to pay knowing at least 1 dog is going to a good home

i give up.... if he was genuine and has bred before why is he getting rid of them at 6 WEEKS old....???

Yes its down to nurture not just nature - BUT you have a 2 yr old child who may end up being this puppies litter mates for biting and yelping - this is essential learning that they do with their litter mates...
will he keep this pup for you for another 2 weeks? If he is genuine he will.. what sort of questions has he asked you as to what sort of home you are?

We are giving advice here and you are essentially saying it doesn't matter a jot to you anyway so why are you asking the question in the first place? Also the fact this pup might turn out to be regarded as "type" does that not bother you?

thats a risk you take with any cross particularly of these kind of breeds.

Take it from someone who knows: just because you get a puppy and train/socialise it does not mean you will end up with a well behaved dog. You simply cannot train away it's genetics. Nurture is only 50% of the equation, which is why it's so important to pick a good breeder with dogs of known breeding and excellent temperament, especially with such a large and powerful breed.

I'm afraid that anyone who 'accidently' breeds bull breed type crosses with no health testing is the definition of a backyard breeder.

There may not be bad breeds but I'm afraid there are bad temperaments. Temperment is influenced primarily by genetics and all the love or training in the world won't necessarily change that. The reality is you will have no idea how this dogs temperament will turn out.

Personally I wouldn't choose to have a large breed bull type of an unknown background around a 2 year old child. Especially as the puppy will be far too young to leave its littermates and will have to be taught bite inhibition.

Ethical/non-ethical breeders: http://www.dogsey.com/dog-breeders.htm

"Good temperament" is situation dependent.

E.g. a good temperament for a guide dog isn't the same the same as a good temperament for a guard dog which can be different to "good temperament" in a working ratting terrier or a cattle dog.

As others have said genetics also plays a big part. The nuture/upbringing acts on the raw material of the dog's genetics. You can only influence that so far from what is in its DNA, some of which may only be apparent at the relevant developmental stages e.g puberty or social maturity.

In a late maturing mastiff breed you mightn't be sure of what it's adult temperament was going to be until it was about 3-4 years old.

i don't think any amount of sound advice is going to put the OP off buying this pup sadly. Having a young child with a cross that you have no idea what it is and how its going to turn out is not ideal. you say the 2 have mated before , well if the breeder is a caring one he should have pics to show you of the litter,at least you'll get to see how they turned out, size wise etc..

doesnt mean the OP doesnt "love dogs" though

some excellent points re the parents being very relevant when it comes to 'temperament', which the OP ought to consider in her situation.

I know the health tests point has been mentioned, but I don't think it was resolved well.

I thought they weren't health tested because it was an accidental mating, which I suppose is a good excuse, but if they've bred before they should already be health-checked.

It should also be possible for you to meet one of their previous litter, to judge the temperament. I don't know of many respectable breeders who breed if they don't want a dog themselves.

I'm not judging you. I have taken BYB dogs myself (although I have never paid for them, simply saved them from death) because despite wanting to be strong, I am not. I am just trying to make sure you have as many facts as possible about these dogs.

I can see this ending in one of two ways. You get a puppy who is either very ill, or very difficult to train. Yes, all dogs are trainable, to a certain extent, but with a 2 year old that is going to be difficult. Or, you could have a wonderful dog, who is then seized for looking like a "type", and PTS. The effect that has on children shouldn't be underestimated, and it's very difficult to fight it - look at Lennox. He's been on death row for years and his family have paid thousands in legal battles.

If you still want to give this dog a try, then speak to the man a bit more. Ask if it would be possible to keep your dog there until 8 weeks, because you need a well-developed dog. If he's a good breeder, this won't be a problem at all, and you'll have a much easier dog to raise.

I'd also ask about the previous dogs, and try to gently get as much information on the adults as possible. Where did they come from? Has he had them long? He's obviously going to try and make himself look good, but if he doesn't know the breed of his own dogs then that is a concern. That means they are unlikely to be insured, for example, and whats to say he didn't get them for dog fighting before they mated?

His two situations just don't add up. He can't be an unexperienced breeders whose dogs accidentally mated that is trying to do his best by them, and didn't have time to health check them, and a previous breeder who knows what he is talking about.

The best backyard breeders are amazing at lying, getting people emotionally involved and spinning stories. Just remember that there will be plenty of other puppies.

Size wise the mix could be big ...
A beorbeol can be up to 200 pound ..
An am bull what 100 pound ?

This says it all really- What matters is the dogs appearance, and that begs other questions. What SHOULD matter ABOVE anything especially where a small child is involved is the dog's temperament.

just spoke to the breeder, both parents are purebred and have papers and he has papers from health checks and vet appointments etc he will show us when we collect the pup.

and the appereance is all that concerns me, i dont beleive mixed breeds are dangerous at all if that was the case the rescues wouldnt be rehoming them. i beleive there are no bad breeds at all just bad owners so the breed doesnt concern me

If they are purebred, why does the Boerboel especially look nothing like a purebred Boerboel? surely the idea of purebred dogs is that they can be identified as such?

Heath TESTS and health CHECKS are not the same. Health tests typically involve x-rays (for elbows, hips, etc.) for orthopedic conditions or blood tests/saliva swabs/eye tests for others. Every breed has recommended genetic health tests that should be conducted prior to breeding. For some breeds there are numerous tests and for others there are none.

No one has said mixed breeds are dangerous. However, obviously some breeds or mixed breeds are more compatible with certain situations than others. In your case, you are talking about a very large, mixed breed bull type of unknown origins. In the unlikely event that this dog is indeed a Boerboel cross, you could get up with an 80kg guardian type. With the best will in world, I don't think you'll find many people advocating that type of dog is a good mix with a two year old child.

no idea why he said its 16 months old so maybe thats why? or could be different standard...neos are the same some are overly droopy and some are hardly droopy at all yet there both pure bred neos. boerboel is a tricky breed so it could be something like that. i dont think its a danger around a child though its a puppy and if it does show agression it will be in classes aimed for that, il take it obedience etc classes anyway and i will teach it bite inhibition by yelping and turning my back on it etc... iv did a fair bit of training with the breeder of my boxer

By 16 months old age, I would expect a dog to be physically mature enough to look like the breed it should be.

This is a six month old brindle male Boerboel:



The head is much, much heavier than the picture of the dog you posted and this dog is still a puppy. Your picture looks far more like a Boxer cross than one of these.

But What sort of papers did the breeder mean? Of course mixed breeds can be dangerous. I did work in rescue, and dealt with my fair share of dogs with aggression problems , mixed and pure breed. people that work in rescue would give you the same advice on here by the way a boerbal took down two children in a park recently ripping out one girls ponytail. Just letting you know to give you some perspective

First of all welcome to the forum and good luck with your new pup. I will be honest and say that the dam does'nt look like a purebred Boerboel to me and I would be interested to know the lines on both parents and possibly the breeder who you are purchasing from.
If she is a purebred Boerboel and the sire an AB you could end up with one very large powerful dog.
I see you have asked the same questions on another forum and the general opinion is the same as the replies you are getting here so it might be an idea to listen and hang fire until the pup is slightly older and that way the pup can have its first innoculation and be vet checked at the same time before you collect.