Scolding a dog you can't catch Training

Discussion in 'General Dog Chat' started by AIIan, Apr 8, 2017.

  1. AIIan

    AIIan New Member

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    Scolding a dog you can't catch

    training/discipline tips required.

    Today in the garden Everest got a little rougher than I'm happy with when playing with my daughter.

    Caught her by the sleeve and pulled her off balance onto the ground. Let go as I approached.

    Obviously consoled my child first who got a bit of a fright.

    Everest took off around the garden and wouldn't come near me when I called. Admittedly I was not calling in a pleasant tone.

    Took about 5-7 mins to finally catch her by the collar and give her a row and off to the kitchen.

    She probably has not connected the pulling with the discipline now but what would a better redress be?

    I actually got a row myself from my daughter for shouting at her best friend.

    Help appreciated in spades.
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  3. Chris B

    Chris B Member

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    Dogs tend to see tellings off as a bit of a game - especially when they involve a game of chase around the garden.

    Teach both your dog and your child. 'Leave' is a good command for an over-excited pup and for the child, just to be calmer when your dog is around.

    Another option is to have a lightweight line on your dog that can be picked up to gently guide away, bring to your side and kept there until they are calm again. In effect, a brief time out
  4. Malka

    Malka Member

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    I think I would have brought your daughter in and left Everest to chase around the garden until she had calmed down and come to you when you called her. Not tried to catch her, once you knew your daughter was safe and OK, but wait until Everest was calm enough to come to you.

    I do not think that catching her by her collar and 'rowing' with her would have been the best thing to do, because Everest would not understand why she had been caught and then rowed at - training is one thing but disciplining a puppy by shouting in - your words - "not calling in a pleasant tone" - can sometimes make their natural behaviour worse.
  5. AIIan

    AIIan New Member

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    It certainly wasn't the most productive encounter.

    Unfortunately bringing my daughter inside wasn't really an option as I have other children whom I couldn't round up to bring inside.

    To my mind that kind of behaviour can't go unchecked but my timing for it was a mile off. If I let her calm down and called her then I certainly couldn't give her a bit of a row at that point for coming to me when called. Perhaps she got the message that grappling with the kids means lunatic chases you and she won't do it again but I fear not and I would prefer to be better informed next time.

    Reflecting back I think I should have given Everest a time out beforehand as she was getting rather bouncy and I like the long line idea. Though must be careful not to garrotte the children with it.

    My attempts to catch her were pretty futile. She can corner 3 times faster than me on wet grass.

    Thank you all for your comments so far.
  6. Malka

    Malka Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    @allan - it happened. What I think you should do now is make sure it does not happen again. I do not know how many other children you had to "round up to bring inside" but I think that you should teach all children that when you say "inside, now" - they go in and leave Everest alone.

    And then just ignore Everest and not try to catch her. If she is safe in your garden/yard - just leave her until she realises her "fun" has gone, and wants to come in as her choice. Chasing after her when she is faster than you, will only make things worse as she will think it is a game.

    The children are the important ones and they must learn that "inside now" means exactly that, even if they do not want to stop playing with Everest.

    Everest will learn - but not by chasing after her to catch her, and she will not understand why you are telling her off when all she thought she was doing was playing. She is, after all, only a puppy.
  7. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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    Malka and CaroleC like this.
    Nothing like a running or screaming kids to trigger a dog to get over excited.
    It’s understandable to get annoyed or angry when the dog doesn’t come back when called but they can tell from your body language and tone of voice that you’re not happy and will be less likely to come back.

    My son thought it was fun to run and have the dog’s chase him even though he’d been knocked over a few times, so I taught him how to play games that wouldn’t get the dogs over excited.

    Mine were all taught the ‘emergency stop’ on command so they could be stopped quickly should I need them to, I also find it invaluable in every day situations.
  8. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    You beat me to it Vee. I was going to suggest training the STOP! - both coming towards you, and going away from. It could save a dog's life. This is a KCGC exercise, so will need to be taught eventually if you are on that training pathway. I never show signs of stress when my naughty girl refuses to come. Bribe if you must, but stay sweet and patient, and always welcome them back with a smile, (even if you are fuming on the inside).
  9. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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    I’m a great believer in teaching the ‘emergency stop’, because the dog ‘doesn’t’ have to both stop turn around and come back, so its just one thing to think about and is much easier to comply.
    I don’t know how they do at training nowadays but I just use the command wait.
  10. Chris B

    Chris B Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    How food or toy orientated is your pup, Allan?

    Another way until training kicks in may be to throw treats, or a ball/toy away from the area your kids are playing in and then get the kids to play statues until the pup has calmed.

    When you've got kids and a pup, you really do need to train and get cooperation from both
  11. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Pork1epe1 likes this.
    I use the word STOP, because I use Wait for all kinds of general purposes about the house. I used start teaching the Stop on a casual recall, and by using a very dominant voice and flat hand signal. However, the last time I trained it, (with Merry), my trainer encouraged me throw treats at her front feet - which, of course, she stopped to eat. I have to say that this worked rather well, and though not squirrel-proof M's stop is rather smart.
  12. AIIan

    AIIan New Member

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    previously she has been a demon for food and would stop in mid air for a treat, then she went wild for squeaky toys.

    Now she is a bit and miss for both.

    Training a stop command seems like a good idea, as does prevention which would be probably easier with the dog than the children if im honest (for various reasons).

    Thanks for your advice all, very much appreciated.
  13. Dogloverlou

    Dogloverlou Member

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    Malka and Pork1epe1 like this.
    There should be no need for any kind of harsh discipline. She was being a normal, playful pup, and presumably you never disciplined your own daughter for OTT play? Redirection is your best bet, teaching a solid recall ( which you won't achieve if you scare her into coming through shouting ) and supervision. With young kids & puppies things can very quickly escalate and end in tears so to avoid things getting out of hand I'd encourage gentle play between both child & dog. The more wild the child is, the more wound up the pup will get ;) In addition to that you cold have your pup on a long line under your supervision so you can interject and redirect your pup when she is getting to much for your daughter. I'd also encourage short training sessions between your child & pup instead of rough housing as it will induce calmness & good manners in your pup and develop a strong relationship between both child & pup at the same time. Redirection through training, toys & food, not force :)
  14. AIIan

    AIIan New Member

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    Quite correct i did not discipline my daughter for OTT play as i dont consider going down her slide OTT.......

    Generally, the kids and Everest get on famously, they are gentle and respectful of each other and in fact despite the single incident above, Everest wont even jump an inch when my daughter is nearby.

    I do like the idea of a long line, but bearing the scar of a retractable leash burn on my own neck from when i was wee im hesitant in employing it fully in the garden.

    Recall - we continually work on, its hit and miss at the moment and i accept that in that instance she was never coming back to me given my tone of voice and general demeanour.

    I genuinely appreciate your input and perhaps im a tad defensive at the implication that i encourage rough-housing or OTT play but i felt a slight compulsion to clarify how my children interact with our pet.
  15. Innocence

    Innocence Member

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    Hi, Allan,
    I am a quite late in joining this thread.
    Keep the recall practise up and as you have been told many times that you approached Everest in maybe a wrong manner as he will associate the chase with play I don't see the need to reiterate. As somebody with experience in dog training I will say to you that negative words are still classed to the puppy as attention. You should as Malka said earlier have taken the children inside and let Everest run around until he is calm. Ignore him completely with not even a glimpse of eye-contact. When he has calmed reward with treats. As the children shouldn't have to miss out on playing in the garden as a result of some over-excited puppy behaviour take Everest inside and the children out. (That's using a positive tone.) When Everest is completely calm you may reunite him with the kids.
    Hope this helps you,
    Jane
    x
    P.S. Have you ever been to any puppy obedience classes? If not I would consider going to one. It is a good way to keep Everest's mind active, therefore burning energy. My Springer Spaniel (Harper) used to love them. Although I do appreciate every dog is different.
  16. AIIan

    AIIan New Member

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    Malka and Chris B like this.
    Thanks again for responses,

    The situation hasn't arisen again thanks to better management, prevention serving much better than cure. Any time we see things getting too exuberant we are clipping on a long line, continued escalation = short time out in the kitchen.....generally then having to wake her up from the cold tile floor and resume play.

    In summation its working very well, coupling this with a "calm" command and she is very quickly getting the picture.

    As for puppy classes, currently working on Silver good citizenship, though i think she'll need a few rounds of it as she is just to excited by other dogs currently, having good success with people though so fingers crossed.......currently proving to much of a distraction to boy dogs in the class, by far being the biggest in class maybe its the challenge, maybe its the long legs......irresistible......
  17. Chris B

    Chris B Member

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    CaroleC and Malka like this.
    That's not management Allan, it's training :).

    Well done!
  18. Innocence

    Innocence Member

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    Hello Alan,
    Looks like you've found a way to keep Everest calm. Just remember its a puppy, it is natural for it to get excited in front of other dogs. This is something you can focus on fixing once you have everything else sorted. For now well done we're very proud of you!! ;)
    Jane
    xx

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