Yellow Flat Coats? Controversial

No....you said this..........

To which I asked....

and..........

and then................

oh and I pointed this out.......

You then said this:

Which sounded very much like you didn't value or do health tests (aside from a physical for PRA which will only tell you if a dog has it on that day....)

They've been tested on it all. All good.

On all of what exactly?
What were the results?

You haven't answered any questions about longevity in your lines...or incidence of cancer.

Forgive me for being cynical, but you said what you said about the health tests, then you ran away from the thread and come back to it and suddenly all of your breeding stock is health tested. Why not just say that in the first place?

Really? Are you sure?
Only in June you said:

QUOTE
What About Health Checks?
by Chatham Hill Dogs on Saturday, 12 June 2010 at 20:28....
Well, here's the truth. Health screenings on parent dogs do not guarantee the buyer of any puppy that the puppy is going to be free and clear of any of the common disorders the parents are being screened for.
If any breeder should suggest that their puppies will be better since the parents were free and clear on these health checks....they are making a claim they cannot guarantee.
You have every right to question them, and here's what my take on it is. If the years of testing for the disorder is supposedly having a positive impact....it hasn't been seen. In fact Our Veterinarian, our Relatives in the Medical field and our relatives in the field of genetics concur with this assessment. There has not been any significant change in the decades of having these screenings available.
....
However, we recommend that for your own peace of mind and for the continued relationship that we maintain with all the owners of our pups that when and if the decision is made to test any of our pups, the information is shared among the owners of all our puppies.

Do we screen our dogs? Not the Parents... no. But, we will screen our pups when they are of age. Its a measure of progress at that point and a reflection on our decisions that will determine what the next choices will be.
Now when I talk to other breeders who are on the same page with us, we do in fact discuss screening before any potential pairing. Its a common courtesy and really a need to know beforehand if there are any visible signs of possible issues with these dogs. Why? Because the intention is to avoid introducing double recessives.
. But I'll say it again.....regardless of the results from the parents there is no way a guarantee of the potential condition for the future of any puppies produced can be claimed. Nor does it tell you if the parents although having passed the screenings in the present won't fail the same testing in a few more years.
Do you Get it now.

So you test breeding pairs for colour not for health - is that what you`re saying? Because you say at the outset that you don`t test your dogs.

C&D........ Jeez.....

It is whatever you believe.

No - its what you say.....

It doesn't matter what I say--you won't believe me, you'll just bully me.

Try explaining what health tests you do on your dogs that you breed from.

ETA...I recently started a looong thread about Crossbreeding and whether is was acceptable....my views were changed through the process of that thread.....but never would I condone crossbreeding....or any breeding for that matter.....where the breeder had not done as much as is possible to ensure the health of the future pups.

Ref health testing

Am I to understand it that only if a potential breeding dog/bitch shows possible signs of being an affected, are they then to be tested?

I'm sorry but that just seems highly irresponsible, and stupid. Just because a dog doesn't show signs on the day or on previous days, doesn't make it clear from a genetic defect, I'd expect given your claimes of relatives who study genetics, to understand that most basic of concepts.

What has this health testing done you ask, well here's a little example which is still unfolding as I type.

A dog the breed/type being irrelevant, was around 2/3 months ago tested for DM, this dog came back as a carrier. Another dog from the same litter was also tested and came back as an affected. Whilst I'm not sure if that dog was ever meant to be bred, it certainly won't be now. If the testing hadn't been done and by testing I mean a genetic test then neither of those owners would have known, if the carrier was bred from it could have been put to another carrier, and produced more affecteds, and carriers, and the cycle would have continued.

As it is, action is being taken breeders and even pet owners are testing their dogs, and so far no more affecteds have been recorded, though there are now a total of6 carriers.

Now when considering breeding, breeders will know which lines/dogs should never be put together, something they wouldn't/didn't know previously.

As I've said many times, I've got no issues with crossing breeds if it is done to improve health, genetic diversity or for a working purpose, provided it is well researched, well planned, breeding stock is health tested etc etc.

HOwever, 20 + pages later, I'm not convinced that Chatham Hill is actually doing the above. It appears to be more of a sales tactic, claiming improved health diversity etc, to potential puppy buyers without the actual hard evidence to back it up.

Also, anyone who knew their stuff, had the evidence and was worth their salt, wouldn't need to use avoidance and redirection to try to gain ground in an argument, and if they were truly genuine and passionate about what they were doing, it wouldn't matter how many times the same questions were asked, they'd answer them with the same level of enthusiasm as they did the first time.

I thinkit just takes a quick skim through of this thread to see that no one has bullied you, just asked questions (important ones) about thebreeding practices of someone who is trying to establish a new breed of dog that will fit into peoples apartments.:?
If you loved the 2 breeds you are using and the one you are creating you would feel so passionately that you would happily answer.

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[/QUOTE]

Not that old card again nobody has or is bullying you, they are simple asking questions, that you refuse to answer!

No, you have not answered the question.

How can you get a positive result on the day , for hip scoring and eye testing.

There is more involved in such tests, which proves you obviously dont 1) understand what it involves 2) dont do them.

Easy enough to prove ,whats the results.

You have made it very clear to anyone that reads this thread that your breeding practices leave a lot to be mulled over.

You stated earlier in the thread, if anyone wants information on you and your dogs, to take a look at your site, but fortunately , with your participation in this thread, you have scored an own goal!! in other words, ANYONE that goggles you and your breeding, will have this thread/dogsey pop up in their research of you... due to the size of Dogsey!!

You dont hip score, your dogs, you dont have results to show , you dont have eye certificates for any of your breeding stock...

Your mission statement is to breed healthier dogs, yet do none of the necessary to achieve this.

It is a bit like me saying.... I am unhappy that Boxers dont live much past 10, so I (ON MY OWN) have a plan to make them healthier.

I will bring into my breeding regime the "white" Boxer..... and by doing so will produce a healthier, hybrid Boxer, because dont you know the "white" is healthier then their coloured siblings:?

And thats all thats needed to achieve a new fitter healther breed, the missing link mind, is obvious for all to see............NO HEALTH TESTING DONE!!

You can only make a good product with good ingredients....something thats flying way over your head, it seems!

We are fine here at Chatham Hill Dogs. Our puppies & dogs are all healthy. And FYI we never sell to families in apartments...not even the smaller retrievers.

Just received more pictures from happy owners of our dogs and posted them on our website. And have received numerous holiday cards from families who have both Chatham Hill Retrievers & Flat-Coat Retrievers. We are doing really great! So many families are happy with us and their puppies!!



So you do your thing and we'll do our thing.

Will you elaborate as to how you know this for 100% sure?

How do you know your pups are all healthy.........how old is the oldest dog you have bred?


Regarding "doing your own thing" you brought your "thing" to the world web, not us, all we have done is throw a little light on the subject.

P.S see you still refuse to answer the health testing issue!!

I wonder what you mean by healthy...or how you know....

Ohh dear...well atleast we know where some breeders priorities lie.. well them that didnt already guess! ;-) sad really :-(

How can you scan pups when they are old enough? That would mean keeping them ALL till they were adults and you sell them as puppies.

It's whatever you believe.


Chatham Hill Dogs are happy in our home and the Flatcoats and Chatham Hill Retrievers we adopt out are happy in their homes.

Yellow, Black, Liver Flat-coat Retrievers & Chatham Hill Retrievers are great pets for a family. Come to our home and meet us and our pack of dogs and you decide for yourself.

You dont allow strangers into your home remember? Thats why you take deposits before pups are even born. (Your words)