difference between CKCS and KCS? Questions

The title says it all. I am trying to get clear what the differences are, excuse my ignorance, can anyone fill me in?

[SIZE=+2]King Charles Spaniel or Cavalier King Charles Spaniel[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=-1]King Charles Spaniel[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+2][SIZE=+2]THERE IS A DIFFERENCE![/SIZE][/SIZE]​

[SIZE=-1]Cavalier King Charles Spaniel[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Many people are unable to recognise the difference between King Charles Spaniels and Cavalier King Charles Spaniels. They are two entirely different breeds and apart from sharing the same coat colours, have totally separate breed standards, characteristics and identities. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel as we know it today was not given official Kennel Club recognition until 1945. The King Charles Spaniel whose history has been documented since the 15th Century has its origins in the courts of Europe. In 2000 only 185 King Charles Spaniel puppies were registered with the U.K. Kennel Club while the registrations for Cavalier King Charles Spaniel puppies exceeded 11,400. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]The media often incorrectly describes most Cavalier King Charles Spaniels when they appear in the press as being King Charles Spaniels, this only causes more confusion. It is very alarming for new owners when presenting their puppy to a Veterinary Surgeon for examination to be told that their beautiful, well reared King Charles Spaniel is an extremely bad specimen of a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. This has happened on several occasions, causing the purchaser much distress and has led to threats of legal action against the breeder. Several of the reasons quoted have been: [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]1. Because the dog has a domed head it most probably has Hydrocephalus.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]2. Because the dog has an Undershot Jaw it may need corrective surgery in the future. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]3. Because the dog has Fused Nails and Pads it may need future surgery. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]All these i.e. Domed Skull, Undershot Jaw and Fused Toes are breed specific to the King Charles Spaniel Breed Standard. To quote from the two breed standards: [/SIZE]


[SIZE=+2]The King Charles Spaniel [/SIZE]


[SIZE=+1]Head and Skull [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Distinctive Domed head full over eyes. [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Nose, large wide open nostrils very short and turned up to meet skull. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+2]The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Head and Skull [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Skull almost flat between ears.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Shallow stop, length from base of stop to tip of nose about 1 ½" [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Mouth[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Bite should be slightly undershot. [/SIZE]


[SIZE=+1]Mouth [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Jaws strong with perfect regular and complete scissor bite. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Feet [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Compact, well padded and feathered, toes well knuckled, round cat shaped foot, well cushioned, pasterns firm. Occasionally central pad and nails fused together. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Feet [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Compact cushioned and well feathered. [/SIZE]


[SIZE=+1]Size [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Weight: 8 - 14 lbs. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Size [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Weight: 12-18 lbs. A small well balanced dog well within these weights desirable. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Colour: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Black and Tan, Tricolour, Blenheim, Ruby [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Colour:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Black and Tan, Tricolour, Blenheim, Ruby. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Tail: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Docking is optional in this breed. If carried out this should be done whilst a puppy, at the appropriate time by a qualified Veterinary Surgeon. N.B. Some King Charles Spaniels are born with a short tail, a kinked, or an apparently broken tail. In these circumstances the tail usually is docked. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Tail: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Docking is optional [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Temperament: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Reserved, gentle and affectionate. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Temperament: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Gay, friendly, non-aggressive, no tendency to nervousness. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Bearing these points in mind it should be easier to differentiate between the two breeds and to help prevent the confusion which exists today. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+2]The King Charles Spaniel [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+2]The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel [/SIZE]

Head






Head






Foot with fused pads






Foot Compact, cushioned, well feathered






Mouth slightly undershot





Mouth scissor bite









BACK

That is everything I needed to know, thankyou so much for your extensivr answer. I shall sound slightly more knowledgable if talking to owners in the future.

I did the short hand and copied and pasted - twas a bit early for me type all that

LOL I explain the differences as being :

Cavaliers have a muzzle, KCS don't
Cavaliers have a flatter skull between the ears
Cavaliers are bigger
Cavaliers have full tails, KCS often don't(even now docking has ended they can be born with shorter or screw tails)
Cavaliers are much more outgoing

wow birdie ...you have learnt well very impressed

fab post xx

Interesting post , i am now more educated myself now as i often wondered too , but was too embarrased to ask , incase there was not a lot of difference lol xxdk

aw bless you

huge difference in temperment as well ...

I see , lots of differences isnt there , but i would usually just look at them and think theyre the same , at least now i will be able to try and define the two , Thanks inca , xxdk

Going to sound really daft now , but ive heard it said that there is one breed , i think its the cavalier king charles , that is allowed into places where dogs are not , because its classed as the kings breed , sorry if im wrong as i have very little knowledge of the two breeds , and someone may have been haven a joke at my expense L,O,L xxdk

i always knew there was adifference in muzzle type etc but was never sure which was which!

thanks!

Seems there were a few of us who didn`t want to admit our ignorance LOL.;-) :smt002

LOLOL It is king Charles Spaniel However Charles I & II would not recognise the breed today as it was breed with other breeds by the Victorians to have a more "Human"face by shortening the muzzle, the Victorian Ladies(including Q Vic)liked their "lapdogs"to have a human like face. If you look at the painting of dogs from the 14th Century onwards the dogs have muzzles like the Cavalier & look nothing like the KCS.

They were used in the 14th C onwards to hunt Woodcock, obviously the KCS would not be able to carry a Woodcock due to being undershot. Also the ladies had them as companions & also to rid their chambers of "vermin":smt002

They were originally two breeds, the Royal Spaniel owned by the Royalty & their court & these were B&T or Ruby & the Blenheim Spaniels of the Churchill family. As dogs were given as gifts between the Royalty & court & the Churchills they were interbred & became the favourite dogs of Charles I & II. The dogs with the lozenges were considered "Ladies"dogs & were highly prized by the Ladies of the Court

That was a very ,interesting read dyanne thank you xxdk

More fab info, thanks everyone.

Thanks for all the info everyone, I had often wondered what the difference was as well but again didn't want to show myself up as a eejit.
My mum has a rescue spanial and I would now say she is a Cavalier (dog not Mum LOL) Cheers guys!

That's right, I heard that too, and put it too the test once - and the owner of the shop just looked at me in astonishment, as I walked back out with harvey under my arm

How nice for someone to explain it nicely. I remember being on one dog board a few years ago before I found this one and one poster got ripped to bits for asking the same question.

Some ppl can be so rude , thats why i like dogsey so much , you dont get shot down for asking questions no matter how silly xxdk

To answer the question regrading one of the breeds being welcomed when another wouldn't

We were (ckcs) was allowed in the Hilton with oriental rugs when they didn't allow others. This was a show in New Jersey when they didn't allow other dogs. I think they are royal and many others have that feel too.