Help with Springer! General Chat

Discussion in 'Welsh Springer Spaniel' started by Seacrow, Aug 14, 2011.

  1. Seacrow

    Seacrow New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Name:
    Sarah

    Help with Springer!

    My name is Sarah, and the dogs of the house are Soso (papillon, 11 years) and Willow (welsh springer, 5 months). I've grown up around dogs, my Dad says I was fluent in canine before English, and one of my first memories is going for a walk with a Great Dane.

    Up until this Spring we had 2 Paps, Soso and her mum, Ellie, but when Ellie died my husband decided he wanted a dog that he could take mountain walking with him. This would be his first dog, and he was originally timid of dogs, so we decided on a list of attributes:
    • energetic
    • not too big (or too small)
    • willing to please (for ease of training)
    • soft coated - shedding not a problem
    • affectionate to family, happy to meet people
    • would not chase house rabbit (before anyone shrieks, the rabbit no longer lives in the house, but still occupies a secure cage/hutch in an outhouse)

    The Welsh springer appeared to be perfect, and so we went ahead - Willow arrived about 3 months ago.

    Part of the time she's sweet and trainable, part of the time she's a hyperactive raving lunatic, and the rest she sleeps. Everyone (vet, breeder, breed enthusiasts) tells me this is perfectly normal, but there are occasions I feel I'm clinging to my sanity by the last thread.

    Hope this makes sense to you all, and I would love to connect with springer or springerX owners to share experiences/condolences of the breed type.
  2. Registered users won't see this advert. Sign up for free!

  3. Ripsnorterthe2nd

    Ripsnorterthe2nd New Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Name:
    Emma
    Welcome to Dogsey!

    I've only ever had English Springers, but Morganstar on here breeds Welshies so she may be able to help. I'll see if I can get hold of her.

    I know English Springers can be very hardwork and need clear boundaries when young, especially when going through the teenage stage so it's possible Welshies are the same. Although I've always found them a bit more "restrained" than the English when I've met them though? :lol:
  4. Lizzy23

    Lizzy23 New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Name:
    Liz
    yep sounds like a springer, english or welsh
  5. ClaireandDaisy

    ClaireandDaisy New Member

    Likes Received:
    7
    Name:
    Claire
    That sounds like a perfectly normal Springer to me. Sorry.
    Try gundog training? :grin:
  6. smokeybear

    smokeybear New Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Name:
    smokeybear
    Moving from a breed like Papillons to a Springer (Welsh or English) is similar to the difference between driving a Robin Reliant and a Lamborghini! ;)

    You asked for energetic, you got what you asked for! ;)

    They are dogs bred to work, so it may be a good idea to take up a hobby, if not gundog work, then agility, HWTM, Flyball, Working Trials, Obedience etc?
  7. Rolosmum

    Rolosmum New Member

    Likes Received:
    1
    Name:
    Lynn
    I think the key (i have two english springers), is to tire their mind as well as their bodies.

    One i have had from 9 weeks old and he had the typical puppy zoomie minutes at a time in the house as well as his time walking outside offlead to roughly the 5mins per month rule twice a day.

    The way we handled it was to give him a short while to run off his steam with the zoomies maybe 30secs to a min (this seems a long while when they are flying around the house), and then call him in and do some training with him, sitting, laying, leaving things etc all for a small food reward, just for another small few minutes, this tired him out and he would chill again.

    We also actively taught him to child we would sit or lay him with us and be just calmly entertaining enough to keep him their quietly, if he wanted to move to soon we would use very gentle restraint to just build up the time he would stay calm with us. We would use calming signals (such as a long slow yawn, you can see calming signals on the internet), and this would actively show him to calm.

    We in a short space of time by occupying his mind as well as his body have a very calm springer indoors and although we occasionally have the running play with his slightly older half sister who we got when he was 6 months old and her 9 months, this lasts minutes and again we can stop and calm.

    Good luck I am sure as he grows all will be well with firm training and boundaries.

    forgot to add that we did keep doing training with a group weekly through this, we did puppy, puppy advanced then moved to rally and rally advanced, all of which helped to focus his mind and teach him to enjoy accepting instructions and helped through any adolescence too, we are now about to join the rally club.
  8. rune

    rune

    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi, I have had a lot of dogs but my springer is by far the cleverest and probably the most energetic.

    As I knew what I was letting myself in for I did a few things I haven't done with other dogs/pups.

    Every meal was fed in an interactive toy, ball or pyramid. I did lots of the Nina Otterson toys with her, toys she had to work out in order to get a reward. Not practical for you beacause of the money but you can cobble somehting together which does similar things. Sometimes food was chucked around the garden.

    Lots of basic training---I wanted to do HTM but I wanted strong basics and strong self control before anything else, so that is what I worked towards. She was and still is worked on something more or less every day for at least 5/10 mins. Usually longer. Also has a lot of other dogs to play with.

    I decided a solid 'hold' and release was one of the first things so I clickered for that as a seperate thing from running after a ball.

    She decided the hedge and bunnies were more interesting than me at about 6 mths I think----so she was on a long line for a bit while I sorted that out.

    Have fun! Pictures would be good.

    rune
  9. SLB

    SLB

    Likes Received:
    4
    Name:
    Aimee
    I have a springer x lab - you just have to get in there with the training and be consistent - everything you would with any other dog.
  10. Seacrow

    Seacrow New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Name:
    Sarah
    We're looking into working gundog training - you'd think there'd be lots in Cheshire, but a lot seems to be Labrador/HPR based. I've started teaching 'fetch' (which interestingly doesn't come naturally to her) and recall even through rabbits!

    She is a PUPPY though and too much physical exercise is a no-no right now.

    I did do a fair amount of research, and I thought I knew what I was letting myself in for.

    At the moment she gets a half-hour walk on lead in the morning with Soso, and about a 45 min walk in fields off lead (with occasional recall and bits of training as we walk). Her breakfast kibble goes in an interactive squeaky ball, and gives me about 45 mins of quiet. She has an overflowing toy box, we rotate the toys to keep them interesting.

    I spend 5 or 10 mins every hour with her playing 'hunt the kibble bits', 'which tub is the toy under' and other 'nose work', and another short chunk of time practising basic obedience.

    She passed a puppy class without too many difficulties, and we are continuing to take her to training classes once a week.

    Like I said, a lot of the time she is good (well, for a puppy), but its the times she spends motoring around at full speed. Inside shes bouncing off the windows (the boost from the chair means she hits - literally - the window at shoulder height, its double glazed so its fairly safe), outside she goes through bushes (including gooseberry and pyracantha), over walls, bounces off doors and generally wreaks havoc. I can't stop her - shes too fast and avoids traps easily, and even if I can catch her, I can't hold her, shes unbelievably wriggly and quite strong. I've tried a long lead, and got rope burn and broken pots. Right now I get Soso out of the way to safety, and stand back, figuring giving commands I know will be ignored isn't the way to go.

    Is this 'mad time' something she needs?, or is it to replace something I'm not giving her?

    Hey rune, there will be pictures as soon as I figure it out - theres a thread somewhere I've earmarked to read.

    Thanks for listening folks.
  11. SLB

    SLB

    Likes Received:
    4
    Name:
    Aimee
    Thats why you teach them her first ;) Get her into a clicker training class. And gloves are the best way to handle long lines.

    All dogs have their mad moments. If you feel she is too destructive in your garden/house to have these mad moments - take her to an enclosed field and let her have it out there.. Springers love to use their nose - and 20 minutes of Louie running around like a loon and he's fine.. By the sounds of it - she's been allowed to get away with these things OR your boundaries haven't been set clear enough for her. If my dogs are being silly in the house they are told "enough" and if they ignore that - they are taken the other side of the babygate for a few minutes then I let them back in. I can do this a few times before it clicks but it clicks.
  12. Rolosmum

    Rolosmum New Member

    Likes Received:
    1
    Name:
    Lynn
    I do think with puppies you have to allow a certain amount of zoomie time, and they do grow out of it, but they do need boundaries and to be stopped from going one step too far, that will be different for each of us, each environment etc, but will teach them a limit a bit like we teach our children, it isnt necessarily the same for all of us though, but a pup needs to learn very much like the children.

    (from my experience it has been a quicker job with the dogs than the kids! lol)

    Another thing my springer loved was ripping into big cardboard boxes and packets, this made a mess but easily cleaned up and would tire him out no end. We still give them boxes for fun now.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2011
  13. morganstar

    morganstar New Member

    Likes Received:
    1
    Name:
    Jacquie
    Hi sorry for the delay. Firstly how long is pup left alone Welsh cant cope with long periods alone and often go crazy when you get back.
    They are also highly intellengent as a breed and need lots of mental stimulation so you could try kongs and treat balls.
    AS a few have said you should expect a lot of "puppy behaviour" they do have a 10 minute madness and they do grow out of it "EVENTUALLY" and its worth it.
    Drop me a PM if you need any help I'm not far away :lol:
  14. Lizzy23

    Lizzy23 New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Name:
    Liz
    something i forgot to ask before, what is she fed on?? food can make a hell of a difference in hyper levels in springers
  15. Seacrow

    Seacrow New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Name:
    Sarah
    Willow is left alone (in sight and sound of papillon Soso, but shut away from her) for 1.5 hr once a week (grocery shopping), and I try to leave her for a couple of 5-10min periods each day. The high volume screaming and throwing the contents of her crate around is slowly diminishing, to begin with she would keep it up for half an hour, now its 10-15 mins. The bouncing when we get back is manic, but only lasts a few minutes, and we can stop it immediately by asking for a sit or a down.

    A 10 minute madness wouldn't be a problem, but she's like the energiser bunny - she just keeps on going and half an hour later I feel like hiding in a corner. I have now tried grabbing her at 10 mins in and saying Oy, enough, but I'm not strong enough to hold her through a wriggling fit. My husband can, and she will calm down for him after wriggling fit to bust. I don't feel right about shoving her into her crate to stop her - its supposed to be a sanctuary, not a sin-bin.

    She has a treat ball for kibble, and every loo-roll and cardboard box get sniffy stuff put in, and are then sealed for her to shred. I left the old Argos catalogue on the sofa yesterday (put the new one away, and didn't think to bin the old one immediately), she only had the time it took for me to take some stuff upstairs and come down again, and the living room looked like there had been a brief but intense blizzard - pages 1 to 1024.

    She's eating James Wellbeloved at the moment. Kibble for breakfast and elevenses, kibble+half a pouch for tea and dinner. She isn't finishing her breakfast kibble anymore, just nosing at it, so I've stopped breakfast as of this morning. Her Ma and Grandma are on BARF, which might be why she's so enthusiastic about veg., but I won't go down that route because Soso is very allergic to beef, and won't eat fish of any sort and I don't fancy finding a no-beef, no-fish, balanced for springer and papillon, BARF diet.

    Reading through all this I sound kinda negative, so I want to tell you all that Willow is very much loved, and this problem is really only a tiny thing compared to the joy she brings. She is adorable, and she will only get more so when (if?) she calms down a little.
  16. Springerman

    Springerman New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Name:
    Darrin
    Hi
    This is my first post by the way. I have two English Springers and this mad bouncing off all four walls and windows is a sign of a lack of excercise and mental stimulation. Mine get three walks a day 45 min in the morning 45 min around midday and 1 1/2 hours in the afternoon evening now they are adult. This keeps them calm. Plenty of excercise and mental stimulation is the key.
    Of all the gundog breeds Springers are probably the hardest work. They never seem to tire and have boundless energy, I take mine for 14 to 20 mile walks in all weathers at weekends and 5 minutes after I get home if I pick the lead up they will be ready to go again. It dosn't help that mine are working/field springers, show springers are often less demanding... not by much though. Did yours come from working stock?
    Even at five months a good two hour walk might be needed with proper interaction through gundog style training by finding tennis balls in a bush or working on straight or blind retrieves to mentally tire them out.
    Try getting her ready for swimming if she dosn't swim already, springers love swimming it physically wears them out and is very healthy for them. However do not run with her or do any jumping work with her yet.
    You have a dog that is breed to be out in front of a gun in the bushes and thorn thickets following scent and pushing up birds and bolting rabbits, this is also one of the reasons she will pull on the lead like you never knew possible for this size of dog unless trained properly. All these points put together form one of the reasons why guns normaly look at labs for a peg dog rather than a spaniel as they are fidgets. Finally look at Paul Rawlings or David Lisset for gundog training tips as owning a springer is not like owning any other dog. A parting shot, once trained and over 12 - 18 months of age you will have one of the most loyal, friendly, outgoing mischevious and fun dogs you could possibly own, I am biased by the way.
  17. Rolosmum

    Rolosmum New Member

    Likes Received:
    1
    Name:
    Lynn
    I also think that you have to be careful with a springer to not teach them to keep expecting more, you will build up their stamina such that they demand more to tire them.

    It is as much about quality of the walk as well as the distance covered and time spent. My two have an hour twice a day approximately, and this can be spent walking around fields, woodland and usually involves a tennis ball being thrown and sometimes they have to hunt for the 'lost' ball, they probably cover 10 times at least what we cover in a couple of miles or so.

    They are also given sit and leave type training along the walks sometimes and changes of direction to keep them in tune with what we are doing and make their brains stay engaged on us.
  18. Springerman

    Springerman New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Name:
    Darrin
    Very true, I agree with you, however mine are both workers and if not given the relevant excercise even as young pups we were in for trouble. I would say that the main main point with this breed is that a quick walk round the block or park is not going to be good enough, there is a minimum level of excercise needed to physically wear them out and interactive mental activity with the owner is a neccessity.
  19. JoedeeUK

    JoedeeUK Member

    Likes Received:
    3
    Name:
    Deejay
    We have a once"manic"working ESS that comes to our clicker training classes. His owner does put in a lot of "home-work"every week. We do loads of clicker training with his owner & after he learns a new exercise/reinforces an exercise at class, he is stretched mentally & is far calmer afterwards.

    As others have said the training we teach needs to be continued at home & bless his owner, she has stuck in there & now has a well manners pleasant to live with dog.

    He was also calmed down by changing his food from the dreaded Bakers complete to a more natural diet !
  20. rune

    rune

    Likes Received:
    0
    I do lots of brain and clicker work with mine as well as the walks, she doesn't get anything like 2 hours walking a day---more like 3/4 hour but she does have other dogs all the time to interact with and more or less free access to a large outside area. Searching is good for tiring as is swimming.

    She digs, uses the boy dogs as climbing frames, is trained for about 20mins at least every day. This week I am busy doing other things and she has not been trained but has had kongs, antlers and bones (along with the others), has played frisbee in the garden----which does tire her out.

    It'll be interesting to see how high on the ceiling she is by Tuesday when I can actually get to grips with her again.

    rune
  21. Lizzy23

    Lizzy23 New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Name:
    Liz
    you will never wear a working springer out by exercise ever, you need to work their brains more, when we first got Molly (a hard hunting working dog that does work during the season) she had zilch recall 4hrs was a common amount of time for us to wait for her to come back. We went to see a gundog trainer who recommended 2 20 minute training sessions a day with no running. Moll was more tired after these than a full day running on the beach.

    To the op all dogs have mad half hrs springers more so than others, my lot are now 7, two at 6, 1 at 5 and an 18month old springer x and they still do zoomies, its just the charm of living with dingers

Share This Page