Natural short tail/bobtail Border collie? Questions

OK, so I think this lady is talking twaddle, but I admit I don't know everything about border collies....

a lady at agility told OH that there is a line of border collies that are specifically bred for short/bob tails.

has anyone every heard of this...is there any truth in it?

(and I suppose the next question would be why would they?)

you sure she doesn't mean aussie shepherds? never heard of a bobtail bc :

I thought Aussies used to be docked, not born with no tail
Never heard of a bobtail BC either

Jann

Posted on it a while back, cant find the links at the moment
But yup there are some - and some BC's in America getting their tails docked
No idea really why a farmer would think it would help his dog be loosing its rudder?? not like they work in undergrowth or anything but if anything in the world is possible it will happen in america

Oh just found it but its on another board so I cant post here, apparently its incase the cows step on it

some of them are born with bobtails, the rest used to be docked

i guess it makes sense, i wouldn't want a cow treading on MY tail

My Aussie Shepherd x had a natural bob tail.
I do know of someone not far from me who was aiming to breed collies etc., with natural bob tails not sure if it is the same person and if they achieved it.

Thanks guys.

OH was pretty sure she didn't mean Aussies.

That's interesting, perhaps it is the same people. I still don't understand why they would want to though - would be interested to hear just how many cattle dogs have had their tails stood on by a cow.

And having seen the difference between Stumpy and a 'normal' collie in terms of balance and agility, not having a tail is definitely a handicap. But perhaps they don't have to quite as nimble and agile working cattle rather than sheep.

Not sure this person owned a lot of land a marina and IMO was not an ethical breeder.

i was thinking more aussies then as well!


they cannot breed true bc (imo) with no flipping tail!!!!!

Well it's known in working line Beardies my boy had a short tail his mother and his half sister from same bitch all had it.

Hmm it sounds like a myth to me. I have never heard of bobtail BCs, but will ask OH later if he has.

Not true. A dog working cattle has to be hard, fast and fit! From stories I have been told, the dog is more likely to get a kick in the face than have it's tail stood on!!!

Just to re-open this thread. In this week's Farmers Guardian there is an ad for bobtail pups. I asked my hubby whether they meant OES, but he said no, there are a strain of BCs with natural bobtails! I forgot to ask him about this when the thread was open, sorry

He says he has only ever seen two, but knows of their existence.

Do you have a pic of Stumpy's back end Fiona lol so I can show him? He said this strain do have a particular look to their tail (they have short tails rather than no tail apparently).

Yes it is know in ISDS lines although it is not common, here is a lovely example meet Bob


http://www.coriesbordercollies.co.uk/cories/litters/ISDSlitter.html

Interesting.. I've never heard of naturally bob tailed Border Collies... do you think somewhere along the line someone introduced the Aussie shepherd into the breeding, thus creating the bob tail gene?

No I do not believe so in the ISDS case (if your talking about unregistered dogs then yes it is possible), if you look into the ancestry of the modern border collie (see links below) it is possible that this gene occurs naturally and can be expressed by dogs from certain lines.

http://www.gis.net/~shepdog/BC_Museum/Permanent/BCCousins/BC_Cousins.html


http://www.roughcolliesofdistinction.com/breed_ancestry.htm

The Australian Shepherd is an American breed(just like the English Shepherd is)allegedly the ASD originated in Spain with the Merino Sheep that were taken to Australia & the US & also imported from Germany. They are a mix of several herding breeds & are not found working in Australia at all except in Australian KC events.

It is very unlikely that any true working Border Collie(as in a dog born in the borders of scotland/england/wales)or Working Sheepdog from any other part of the UK would have ASD in their breeding.

There are obedience/agility/flyball etc breeders who cross ASD & BC/WSD-but these dogs do not work sheep or stock

There very well may be natural bobtail border collies/WSD but I don't think they are ISDS registered(certainly the price of the puppies in FG would indicate unregistered parents)Never seen any at any sheepdog trial.

It sounds more like and Aussie to me as well never heard of bobtail border collies I guess it could happen but in all my years of dogs I have never ever heard of this. Rottweilers, mini foxies, boxers etc can all be born with natural bobtails and very much sort after if you get them. As docking is now banned here in Australia.

I posted this early guess you missed it both parents are ISDS registered and the as is the litter and Bob is natural bobtail
http://www.coriesbordercollies.co.uk...SDSlitter.html

Can't find a shot that shows it really well - doesn't help that she has a very furry bum

Thanks Teal'c - that's very interesting. Bob is such a cutie and his tail proportionally looks about the same as Stumpy's.


Someone else had another theory (which I hope isn't really true). They told me that they've heard of collies every now and then being born with curly (like a pigs tail) and that sometimes they straighten out with a good pull but sometimes the tail breaks. I really hope they were pulling my leg.