Pit Bulls don't exist General Chat

So apparently Pit Bulls "don't exist" lol

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...c410b8-f14c-11e1-b74c-84ed55e0300b_story.html

While they imply throughout the article that they don't exist, are not a real breed, ect one statement actually said is

"But experts say most dogs commonly referred to as a pit bull are either a mix of other breeds or are pure-bred of a breed often misidentified as a pit bull."

Which is true and a big problem. That doesn't mean Pit Bulls themselves don't exist. Other statements outline the problem of misidentified dogs. This doesn't mean a Boxer or Bulldog mix is a Pit Bull just because someone thought it was and called rescue. This doesn't mean if a bull or molosser type dog bites it's a Pit Bull. People misidentified or misuse it. It certainly doesn't mean that there are no real Pit Bulls either.

I do think that when people are trying to make BSL and non sense restrictions they do need to be specific. As the article was written in regards to issue being faced in identifying what a Pit Bull is.

I'll pass on even reading it since it is from the Washington post.
They have for years published work by 2 individuals that make up facts as they go along.
BYB and Puppy Mills are the largest fight in BSL against Pit Bulls.
People who will breed unhealthy and unstable dogs for a profit and sell to anyone.

Pit Bull are one of the Bully breeds which the tough guy wants, and does not want to train, just chain up in there back yard.

Both will sell that cute unstable puppy to a family, which later ends up in a bite.

Real issue I have in last few ears is the Cane Corso seems to be quickly becoming the new thug life dog. If you think a 25 to 50lb Pit Bull there bite compared to a 80 to 150lb Corso is nothing.

What I feel helps the CC in this matter is they have better governing bodies registration wise, where as bully breeds seem to have a endless amount of smaller registries that seem to accept anything as long as you send in the money.

One question is why is the Bully communities trying to bring in the CC, Dogo, and Boerboel into bully breed listings.
The CC is from Neo stock bring back a true working and coursing mastiff.
The Dogo a true hunting mastiff. In the lines of the first bandogs.
Boerboel a working mastiff, protection, herding, and hunting.

Sadly certain comminuties, BYB and Puppy Mills are hurting the BSL issues just as much as idiots who make up facts.

Worst case I have seen is a idiot with a chained up Fila in a yard with a joke of a chicken wire fence circling the yard.

The general public will not know the difference between a Big Johnson American Bulldog and a Pit Bull.

It is up to the Bully communities to actually start being proactive.
First by education in the areas where they live and 2nd by getting rid of half the registries.

Bully breed are great family pets, but as long as the community promotes then as the super dog with there own myths, there will be issues.

Oh yeah so true on the CC. That's been going on for a long time though, at least they still haven't been directly targeted by BSL in most places. But I see people wanting them for imagine and also have been crossing with Pit Bull for years. As for registry it is pretty easy to buy a registered CC and breed litter and register the litter. There are also bogus registries that recognize them too. I was looking online last week and came across this mill with CC and several other breeds. Really sad. They had 3 litters of CC alone.

With the APBT we can't do anything top get rid of the smaller registries or any bogus ones that register all breed. Best weapon is education, like you said. They need to know the difference between good breeder and real APBT.

I've not seen bully community doing that. It's the general public who mistakes them for Pits or people without knowledge calling them bull breed or the exact same thing as a Pit.
With the CC it might be due to defining by function not simply lineage since they were used as bulldogs, Neos too (have been called Italian Bulldogs). That's the only reason I can think of legit people calling them bull. The CC is more like a lighter version of Neo but not simply breeding back to type but other breeds were used like bull breeds, not just a light pure Neo. Honestly looking at old pics of Neo they look more like todays CC, it's just sad the mess the Neo has become. Guess that's another topic.

The Dogo Argentino was created from various breeds both bull & mastiff - bulldog, boxer, dane, ect. The Cordoba Fighting Dog which was used itself was created from Bull&Terrier, Bull & Mastiff types from what I read not sure how that can be substantiated just what I read. The Dogo can easily be misidentified as a large Pit by the general public but it isn't a Pit Bull for sure and people have argued with me that it is. Essentially bandogs are both mastiff & bulldog that's how you create the type. Not just one or the other.

Boerboel I've no clue. While common sense says they descended from Bullmastiff they lean more towards the mastiff side. Bullmastiff were higher percentage mastiff from what I read and I don't doubt that other mastiff which were brought by Europeans were blended along with local population dogs. You can think of the Boerboel as a bandog type breed but I think much higher mastiff blood, not a bully breed even if some work includes bulldog work.

I think we need to really call them all molossers. That's what they are. Both the bulldogs and mastiffs more than likely are splits from the same early ancestor. People want to categorize dogs into all these other types.

This news report the 2 dogs attacked were said to be CC. But the dog under quarantine is clearly some type of mix. Maybe CC mix, maybe not. But a large, hairy mixed dog. But the owners claimed them CC just like people claim to have Pits and don't. RME
http://www.wwltv.com/story/news/loc...ack-3-year-old-grandmother-in-amite/23909033/

A friend I chat with in another forum chats and corresponds with James Brennan.
With Boerboel's you should not have black aka Dane lines, also there should be no bulldog in the lines.
Ysterberg is the Bullmastiff line.
Dopper, Mouzer, Grasland and Gretchen are some of the original lines.
Piona is the more hound type line.
Mouzer is the line that has Bull terrior in it.
Mizpah, Avontuur Anton and Middlpos Simson are some of todays closest lines and are EM based as was the original. (Also why a Black Boerboel is Only SABT)

I know what you're saying. Last year my daughter and I took over a local library display case. We combined Monster High Dolls with bully statues and bully awareness propaganda. One of the place cards was " Pick the Pit Bull". A great awareness postcard from the group "Hello Bully". Maybe only one or two of the pups pictured had any link to the actual bull breeds. Sadly "Pit bull" has become journalistic shorthand for scary butt dog attack...actual breed unknown.

I love Dogo's and Cane Corso's both. They look like my Callie, considered American Bulldog. My Callie at 100lbs+ would be more dog than I could safely handle. I wish these knuckle head backyard breeders would realize the same thing

One of my dogs breeders is friends with James Brennan ☺

I'm aware the hot topic controversy of black color. Though I doubt it was only in "Dane lines". Black has been introduced into the gene pool more than once. Some say Neo in some and that does seem possibly in some as boy they show it and that's just sad imo. I've also seen black with CC or APBT blood, not claimed pure Boerboel but intentionally bred bandogs. I only mention it because they could pass for close to a pure Boerboel. One that was an APBT cross (is black) looks like smaller Boerboel (still very large dog).
I find it interesting that it is looked down upon, since Danes were brought early enough and Boerboel started out as mixed dog of function like so many other great working breeds.

Mouzer came from Ysterberg if there was BT influence I'd like to hear more about it? I like some of the descendents for sure.

My dogs lines Egoli , Dopper, Grasland, Gison (I really like Night Train was one hell of a dog and real working progeny, of course other lines in working dogs too)
Egoli dogs go back to Ysterberg, Mizpah, Gretchen, Steyn, Piona, Lourina....Gison and Dopper have some of the same.

The part in bold is a contradiction eh? As I said they have some Bullmastiff ancestry and therefore some bulldog. We can never know every dog used in the early undocumented creation either. They do the job in S.A. that Am Bulldogs do in the US. "protection, herding, and hunting"
That's doesn't make them a bully breed, as I said they are mastiff breed, I didn't disagree or make claim that they are bully. Though one breeder described them as a standardized bandog.

For sure the media hurts the breed more reporting attacks by other breeds as Pits or a scratch as a Pit Bull attack.

I think he might have some Am Bulldog too but hard to tell. He's bully breed whatever he is. I totally agree with your point in the bybs. They do make dangerous large dogs which can end tragically.

That's all true but in the early 1900s Bullmastiffs were brought to S.A. to guard diamond mines. The early ancestors as you said were dogs brought by colonists but as with many breeds the earliest dogs are not documented. A lot of current Boerboel don't even have long pedigrees but there are those who started breeding a standard type of dog in 1930s and the lines still going. The Bullmastiff used in the diamond minds are dispersed in the Boerboel population. This is also a working dog and going to have some diversity due to ancestry and breeding for function. My dogs parents have differing looks/size. They should still be recognizable as a Boerboel but not a cookie cutter show dog.

I'll have to check with my friend, as to the exact break down line wise.
I'm most familiar with the Mizpah line, or I should say lines as there's the fathers line and the daughters line as of 2012 or 2013 they where given different Names before the Mizpah.

Ysterberg/Mouzer history is a mess might have caused WWIII elsewhere.
Sadly there IMHO a mess. By the looks of it there now mixing everything in the world currently.
Boerboel's though are supposed to be from the original 80 stock from, the Different orgs sprang. t's kind of weird because there supposed to be controlled through the government.

Sorry can't post a link to where this is from here.

That's what I mean, it's not fully documented it's supposed to be a functionally working dog. We don't know exactly what is in it, in what ratios. This is true in other breeds to. I really hope though that currently people are not trying to mix in everything, there is enough of that in breeds. Well at least there are some trust worthy breeders. I just hate all the unscrupulous ones in dogs period.

I was wondering about if there were any specifics on the BT infusion but it's understandable if not. Though high white seems to be more common in Mouzer bred dogs.

They have High white, and what is supposed to be piebald but is clearly Saint mix and Black which they have reg as ultra brindle.

The pattern tell it's Saint and not truly piebald. The overall look and build of the dog I have to admit looks great though.

Sorry think I have derailed the heck out of your topic.

Is white inherited differently in Saints? I didn't believe so? There are some very high white Saints.

Do you think that they crossed in Saint or that you see similarity because they are a white marked molosser type?

Some are actual high white and some are maybe what you recognize as thinking typical "piebald". The markings not the gene.

Some think piebald CO looks like Saint, my COs breeders had one and there really isn't anyway to tell now. Though I wouldn't have mistook him for any type of Saint cross who knows how colors are always introduced. CAS are common to be high white and piebald and they are closely related so I don't see a need to cross in Saints.

If Bull Terrier blood was used in Mouzer I could see that leading to the white and since they have similar look maybe making some people "see" Saint when it isn't there. Of course it's possible that Saint Bernard was also crossed in at some point. Just not necessarily the only way white came to be in the Boerboel.

Lol yes you sure did, this has become more of a Boerboel topic oops.

All of this breeding stuff goes toadly over my head. Only that I've read that the English version of the baiting bull is extinct now. I don't know how this fits in with anything. That they had a breed that did bull baiting...that is basically gripping the bull in such a way that it suffocated. But that breed doesn't exist anymore?

Yes the real working English Bulldog is now dead. (Google English Bulldog and see for yourself) They baited bulls for entertainment and to enhance the meat (at least that was the claim). However their working descendants live in many breeds. Never really think they suffocated a bull though bulldogs & bulldog-terrier breeds will try to control cattle by the nose, face & what not.

As far as understand it the white working English Bulldog (WEB) is alive and well and being bred in both the US and UK. They don't look like the monstrosities we think of today as an English Bulldog, being taller, with far fewer wrinkles. In fact they're quite handsome! Whilst they obviously don't bait bulls they are used for herding cattle and general farm duties.

Yes the Old Southern White (sometimes called White English) is still being bred here as a working dog. It is great if these dogs are also in the UK.

There are other types of American Bulldog being bred besides the Old Southern White but many say they are the originals that the other lines spawn from.

That last photo makes me queasy

Huh? The Spanish Bulldogs working makes you queasy?

American Bulldogs do the same here. As mentioned the Old Southern White. They became very popular with cattle men. You need a tough, strong dog to control cattle. Especially the half wild variety (the Florida Cracker came Criollo stock brought from Spain).

Where I lived before they would still drive cattle down the road right by my house. They would use mostly ACDs but those were much more domesticated cattle, not feral, wild type that still exist. Of course ACD are a fast & tough breed too.

Both photographs made me wish I hadn't looked. I have raised cattle which were always gently handled, and came running like dogs when I called them. I hate to think of those gentle creatures suffering pain like this.