Question about the Northen Inuit type dog General Chat

Have been reading some of the threads on Dogsey about Northern Inuit dogs over time and can't seem to make head nor tail about the breed, if it is a breed at all. There is so much to read and I'll admit now that I haven't read a lot of the threads and don't know much about this type of dog, which is why I want answers to he following questions....

So, in fear of starting a Northern Inuit riot, I would like to know what exactly this 'breed' is crossed with and what the reasons are as to why there is such a cross, if any?

Thanks in advance.

ETA: Links containing the proper information will be sufficient as I do not want to start a riot! Thanks.

The Northern Inuit is a cross between German Shepherd, Alaskan Malamute and Siberian Husky.
It is created simply for looking as wolflike as possible, but some in the NI Society (don't know the exact name) disagreed with the others, and they formed the Utonagan breed, which is supposed to be more wolflike. (?) Then again, people in the Utonagan Society disagreed with each other, and the Tamaskan was created.
More about this here:

Then we have the NI Society here:

I have not been a member here for very long, but I haved noticed (don't know if I'm correct though) that the NI, Utonagan and Tamaskan are pretty controversial subjects here, and that one isn't even allowed to start threads about Tamaskans.
Why is that? (I'm a member of several swedish dog forums, but these breeds are barely known of over here, so we have never had any discussions about them)

Thank you for that information. I'll be looking at both links.

That`s not the case.. the original founding dogs were cross breeds of unknown ancestry, also weimeranas were added and it was rumoured mastiffs too and possibly something from europe smuggled in way back, maybe a czech or a saarloos... but no ones admitting to that one.

I read somewhere that Collies & Akitas were added to!

The reason the NI arrived is because Julie Kelham was investigated for having Wolf Hybrids which she had no issue with bragging about. DEFRA couldnt prove anything at that time, so the case was dismissed. The NI had NEVER been heard of before that, and even in the television interview Julie Kelham made no mention of them at all whatsoever, but strangely they appeared shortly afterwards. the dog she had at her side was said to be "Kyle" or "Call of the Wild" who she clearly said was a Wolf hybrid, Sue Sutton confirmed that on this site.

Julie Kelham is a liar, and Im certain others lie to protect her, you will never know the truth as the hole she has dug gets bigger every day and at the end of it, the dogs suffer as you will have seen not only on this site.

I have no doubt there are some breeders of this "type" that are genuine and are probably horrified at recent findings, I genuinely hope they can find it in their hearts to leave JK and the NIS and help these dogs as time is running out with increasing problems of health and finding the true breeding of these animals.

I was really keen on having an NI, and attempted to research the dogs, joining a couple of NI forums in the process. I spent more than six months trying to get conclusive answers to my questions about the breed, and ultimately, there just seemed to be a lot of backbiting between various factions.
In the end, I felt completely overwhelmed with no idea who to turn to, as each side would tell me that the otherside would lie about the breed, the health testing of the dogs, etc, etc...

It's a real shame, as it all completely put me off having an NI, as I felt if I was going to pay upwards of £500 for a puppy, I at least wanted to know I could trust the breeder and the club the dog was registered to.

I'm not sure whether you will get a satisfactory answer or not, but I sincerely hope that one day the fighting groups will come together and make sensible decisions for the sake of the dogs and the breed, rather than to boast, protect one another and attempt to discredit others who ultimately have the same goal :?

Through contacting many people I have come up with this, still don't know for sure how much of it is true.

A brief History of the Northern Inuit dog

In the UK the founder breeder, a lady named Edwina Harrison, had the vision of creating a dog that had the looks of the Canadian Timber Wolf, but keeping the temperament of the dog. Eddie used crosses of Alaskan Malamute, Siberian Husky and German Shepherd Dogs, It is also thought that Eddie used Weimaraner and Mastiff. Her aim being to create a domestic dog that looked like a wolf.

In 1987 four dogs were imported from San Fransisco. These dogs were imported as 25% wolf dogs, but on further investigation were discovered to be rescue dogs of unknown ancestry, one female was also imported from Alaska. The progeny of these dogs were then bred back to Eddies dogs.

The 1990's, saw other people get involved with the breeding of these wolf looking dogs. Some breeders sold their dogs as wolf hybrids. One breeder appeared on TV publicising her 'wolf hybrids'. This totally misled the public, and fear over wolf hybrids being sold as family pets caused a scare across the country. The RSPCA and other authorities acted to stop the breeding of wolf hybrids, some of the owners were prosecuted and their 'wolf hybrids' confiscated under the 'Dangerous Wild Animal' act.


In 1998 there was a court case
(Newark and Sherwood council -v-Julie Kelham)
which failed to prove any claimed wolf content in these dogs.

Because of the outcry surrounding people selling wolf hybrids, a group of people got together to try and safeguard the future of their new wolfy looking dog breed. They named the breed the Northern Inuit, as it was created using Northern breeds.

The chosen name, Northern Inuit is also misleading and controversial as the NI dog has no connection with the Inuit, or the Inuit Sled dog. The Inuit sled dog is one of the oldest breeds, and has probably been around for 1000's of years.


The NI breeders then split into two separate groups. Because of the controversy surrounding the 'Inuit' name, a new more appropriate name was chosen, 'Utonagan' meaning Spirit of the Wolf. The Utonagan Society was formed in 1999 and the members bred their NI dogs back to dogs of the founder breeder.

The two societies had different visions of what their dogs should be like, and the two different breeds developed.

There have been many splits between the NI breeders, with different groups having different visions for the NI breed, the original breed is now split between NI, Utonagan, British Inuit, Chimayo Inuit, and independent breeders.


This is my own opinion only, as I started a thread on dogsey to try to find information on the history and founder dogs, but got nowhere.

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=94460

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Can you show me the proof of this please. Please can you also show me where Eddie only used Dogs and not Wolf hybrids, when at least 2 people have admitted they bought Wolf hybrids from her.

Would that be Julie Kelham who stated on television that her dogs were Wolf hybrids and that in her opinion they were safe family pets. Oh and that she had loads waiting for puppies!!

Failed? or at that time it wasnt possible, so was dismissed for lack of evidence?

Was JK not one of these breeders? Did she not name them then? Why would anyone even at THAT time support somebody who mass produced puppies, advertised them as Wolf hybrids, sold them as such and now turned tail to protect herself? Sorry, its not adding up is it? (Do we expect anymore? )

See Sue Sutton wrote:
At this time, the N.I was well established as a breed of dog and not as a wolf hybrid. The end result of the court case was a not guilty verdict due to the fact that it could not be proven that there was any wolf content in the breed.
Does that say to you there was no Wolf in them, or that at that time it couldnt be proved? She also says at that time the breed was well established, where? The name was only mentioned AFTER this outcry and subsequently, please show me proof of them existing as an "established breed" prior to that.

the court case failed to prove that the dogs were wolf hybrids, as the court had no access to examine the dogs. So the defendant was found not guilty.

quote

As this was a criminal case, the prosecution had to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the
animals were wolf hybrids within the meaning of the Act. Since the local authority had no
opportunity to inspect the animals concerned, they were unable to present any evidence of the
animals alleged wolf content to the court. Consequently the court found the defendant not
guilty (Kerr, D. 1998.).


I couldn't find the name Northern Inuit in use before this, and there is evidence that in 1990's prior to the court case the dogs were sold as wolf hybrids.

I have heard a lot of talk of wolves and hybrids, but have not yet found any facts.


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As I said, nothing to prove there wasnt any Wolf there, but there was in fact a boasting puppy farmer that said they was, however as stated it couldnt be proved.

Hmmm. Very interesting indeed and I have no idea what to believe and what is fact and fiction. If these dogs are, in fact, wolf hybrids then I certainly don't agree with this.

Thanks, all, for the input. Much appreciated.

At the end of the day if they were wolf hybrids.. once upon a time.. they are now 15-20 gens from the founding dogs, as defra only sees dogs less than 3 gens from the first cross.. as needing a license. That particular argument isn`t really important any more.

I am much more concerned with the health problems that we are seeing among many young dogs at the moment.

Hi Janie,

Apart from epiliepsy, what other health problems are there in the NI type dogs?

HD
OCD
Addisons
Von Willebrands
Cataracts
Monorchids
Cryptorchids
Infertile bitches

Much of this down to chronic inbreeding, which has made the incidents of hereditary diseases far worse. This breed has only be going in it current state for less than 20 years, we shouldn`t be seeing any of these problems if all founding dogs had been properly health checked before breeding them.

There have been a few cases of dogs dying or being pts at worryingly young ages (I'm talking from 4 months to 2 years) due to hip dysplacia, fitting, unspecified heart problems and skull fusion/brain damage/kidney failure. In fact there are 8 dogs that I'm aware of who have died or been pts under the age of 4 years because of epilepsy and fitting, and two who have been pts due to people aggression, one of which was used at stud and also threw epilepsy! It 's enough to make you sick! :-( When I first heard of NIs I was interested in having one one day, but there has been so much heartache and suffering caused to owners and their dogs by such horrific breeding practices, they are lovely dogs but I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole now I'm afraid.

Epilepsy!!

as far as I know, the NI suffers the same illnesses as other large breed dogs such as HD, OCD, Bloat

also

diseases such as epilepsey, von willebrands, addisons, dogs that are monorchids, cryptorchids and infertile bitches. IMO these diseases have been made more prevalent in the breed because of the excessive amount of inbreeding.

True wolf/dog hybrids are generally healthier than either parent, due to 'hybrid vigour' (heterosis)

If there was ever any wolf content in the imported 'wolf dogs' the amount would be so diluted by now there would be no health benefits.


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Re Wolf/dog hybrid, what date were these dogs said to be imported and from where. If the USA in the 80s then I think there was a survey done on so called wolf dogs and the finding were that 99% of the wolf dogs tested carried no wolf at all and of the 1% that did it was a very dilute proportion.

I know I have read this but can't remember where and although it was a scientific survey I can't remember which organisation/university did the work. Mention it and I hope someone, may be Dawn, will have come across this too.

The point being if this, was it undertaken before or at the time the so called Dog/wolf hybrids were imported, if if was, then they were unlikely to be wolf/dog hybrids anyway unless some one did the cross in this country.

Also confused why people think that wolves are necessary healthier than dogs, the captive ones are not and one assumes that it would be captive wolves that were used if indeed such crosses were ever undertaken and more unlikely used as foundation animals for the NI type crosses. No one surly would set out to produce a 'new breed' using foundation animals of unknown parentage and unknown health.

I too believe that most wolf hybrids are in fact such low % wolf content animals that they have no reason to be called wolf hybrids.

I don't know the facts and figures on captive wolf inbreeding and health. Any health advantages in genuine F1wolf hybrids would be from heterosis from the crossing of two completely unrelated animals in the first F1 mating, not due to captive wolves being any more healthy than dogs.




edited to add, there are also a lot of interesting acticles on canine diversity here

http://www.canine-genetics.com/

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