Labrador colours, a guess anyone? Discussions

Just said, the thread isn't about show vs working, if you want that debate, then perhaps a new thread?

Sorry to digress your thread, Ive researched her pedigree going back to 1968 lol
Her parents are Highcrest Edward and Tearsol Dee, but Grandparents are

FTCH Skellorn Danty
Kenmilto Dembura of Henhull
Cynhinfa Explorer of Tearsol
Wendlebury Rose of Tearsol

GGparents
FTCH Endacott Shelf
Dessert Dawn
Potterton Star
Pearl Angel (Father is Pocklea Remus)
FTCH Craighorn Bracken
Ropehall Libra of Cynhinfa
FTCH Greenbriar GlenCoe of Drakeshead
Buxbury Bathsheba

Endacott and Drakeshead are all over the place in her later pedigree, have met both mum and dad and they work every day but are not competed.

Because you don't see them in the showring doesn't mean they don't exist.

Chocolate pups coats DO darken - the pups all have lovely dark eyes and good pigmentation - their mother was a very similar colour as a pup - not any more.



Aunty & Grandmother

No apologies required, a lighthearted aside is always welcome, but sometimes discussions can get taken way off on a tangent with some of the old, old arguments.

Some very famous names in there, one or two quite familiar names, no wonder you're proud of her and every right to be so, she looks like a lovely pup and will hopefully grow up into just what you want.

Labs really do come in all shapes and sizes, many of which meet the breed standard but can be 'different'.

It always amazes me when people start on about show Labs being fat - they are not - I can't remember the last time I saw a 'fat' lab in the ring (apart from one of my own when she got the honey - long story ) and she was well and truly penalised for it

Unless the dog is wobbling, you need to look side on, top down and get your hands on them to see whether there is any excess weight there - I think you will find, there are very very few dogs in the ring carrying excess weight, and if they are, they are penalised for it.

Interesting point, and I know that by no means some would find my bitch acceptable because of her pale colouring, actually, many of the photos I have posted of her are when she's bleached, as she does bleach extensively, so, before I turn into a pumpkin, here's two pics of her bleached and unbleached.....





Ok, so she's got a stupid expression on her face waiting to be sent for a retrieve, but a stupid expression shouldn't affect conformation and/or ability either ;-)

Tarimoor.

Can I ask, with knowing you are not keen on showing and your dogs never been shown, and dont work your dogs properly, (bringing a dummy back is not working) what you think they could possibly offer the breed? I dont mean that in any negative way, Im genuinely interested. With well over 40 thousand registered each year, it seems you think they may have something the breed lacks?

Neither can I, I agree entirely. I have seen fat dogs in all breeeds being exhibited, (and thin ones) thankfully they are usually dismissed from the ring unplaced.

I think the reality is people just aren't used to seeing breed standard Labs anymore. So many of them in pet homes are the taller, leaner working type and that is what people are used to seeing as "Labradors".

If people want to see fat dogs in the showring just go to the Springer ring, so many exhibitors struggle to keep the weight off their dogs because they're so damn greedy, me included!

Borderdawn, I think that's slightly presumptuous actually, I've never said either of my two have anything the breed lacks overall, but they do both have nice breed traits, as well as having their faults, which I am well aware of. You seem to have this idea I've bought a couple of Labradors, without any thought, and would go ahead and breed no matter what, which is certainly NOT the case. Any breeder has a starting point, how many of those starting out do so with a show champion or field trials champion? And if we excluded all except those who started from that point, how large would the gene pool be for any breed?

You also seem to suggest that all people who breed show bred dogs, breed dogs that are somehow superior or 'correct', whereas the average show breeder will breed any number of litters, where many of the pups won't be good enough for the show ring. And yet it's acceptable for them to still breed, I do find that a bit of a double standard if I'm honest.

Where as you don't appear to like or even accept that there is diversity in the Labrador as a breed overall, I genuinely do, and see a lot I like in Labradors that you wouldn't look at twice. You already know that I'm keen on ability, and I have been lucky enough to give Tau a little bit of experience on a small shoot; I know we're not going to set the world alight any time in the near future, but I haven't relied on my own judgement entirely, and have most certainly sought the opinions of more knowledgeable people from both show and working.

You're also wrong about me not being keen on showing, it is something I'd like to get into in the future, if I can, but having gone through my own two year personal hell, which I'm not even going to begin to go into on open forum, I don't think it's up to anyone to judge me for not having competed at much to be honest, I think I've done well to get my own business set up and running with what's happened. So please, don't begin to judge me or my intentions, you don't know me personally and know nothing about my actual life beyond this screen ;-)

Wanted to rep you privately and try and suggest that sometimes it just ain't worth it! However it won't let me.

Interesting discussion in the beginning.

We called out brown collies chameleons as they change colour with the seasons and with age. Similar to your lab.

rune

Agree. Most people have no idea what a Labrador is supposed to look like. It is VERY sad to see how this breed has gone down the pan on the looks front. A bit of so called 'diversity' within the breed is ok to a point, but the Labrador breed has gone well beyond that.

Can I ask you again, what you think your dogs have to offer the breed? a breed "trait" is something common in every pedigree dog, thats why they are pedigrees, they have known characteristics/traits etc.. You are the one pushing for ability etc.. over looks, yet you havent done anything of ability or working with your own.

How can a really interesting thread on 'Labrador colours, a guess anyone?' go into a personal question about 'what your dogs have to offer the breed'???

Things just expand! When talking of breeding its inevitable other things will be talked about. Nothing wrong with that is there? There is nothing personal either, Im genuinely interested in peoples opinions otherwise I wouldnt ask, I totally respect them too, we may not agree, but I certain respect Tarimoor opinion. The "guess" in the post title is enough for me to ask the question, when clearly Tarimoor has a dog which I personally see as a very incorrect colour to breed from, and obviously by her posts many other people see it as NOT chocolate too. As I said nothing personal, just interested.

Could it be that the slimmer type of lab is actually preferred by prospective owners?

They are the favourite choice of the majority of people and the majority of that majority are totally disinterested in any show ring successes or failures. In fact is seems that vast numbers of pet owning people are actively against pedigree show dogs now. Witness the rise in the designer crossbreed.

Whatever the reasons for the change---and the TV exposee must have had some influence on it----the fact is that showing is set to become more and more sidelined as a reason for choosing a dog.

People will choose the dog, the shape and the colour that they think they want to live with.

rune

Its the breed police----bit like the thought police (G)!

rune

Please grow up.

Or the cheapest at the time. Thankfully we are boarding more and more dogs of all breeds that are having the nec tests on parents etc.. While the choc Labs do seem to be the poorest quality, the blacks and yellows certainly have improved.

No, you can't ask me, I didn't start this thread to justify myself or my dogs to you personally, if you have a problem with either, then please keep it private, and leave the thread as it is, about colours and the misinformation and myths that are out there ;-)