The future for "true" Jack Russells Discussions

This stems from a discussion with a relative and a couple of family friends earlier on today, we were reminscing about a particular JRT owned by the aunt and uncle involved in this discussion, "Charmer" was a nice fair sized,straight legged, level backed, sensible dog who earned his keep with vermin control ten fold. He died infact when I was knee high to a grasshopper so my main input of this infamous dog is from word of mouth, but judging by photos he lived up too his name. The discussion raised the point of whether the "Jack Russell" in the traditional and true sense has any future?
I'm quite aware they are a "type" as opposed to breed, but they've always been very much a type that breeds true to type, and all harped back to what was the original "foxing" (not fox!) terrier kept by the infamous hunting parsons himself way back when. (Which many owe their heritage true in one way or another.)The blue print always was, essentially a working terrier. One of three coat types, colour confined to head and tail markings with most of the body being white, sensible straight legs, a good head, etc. All breeding true to type to some extent. Always with variations of this, but they seemed to be exception to the rule of a true JRT.
Now, we see whole coloured dogs being sold off as rare, dogs with all sorts of strange markings (the choc and tan seem to be everywhere) being marketed the same, Russell's which qutie visably have other breeds in them, dogs which are bred and marketed as "mini" and wouldn't be capable of fullfilling their original purpose of bolting a fox thus aren't of breed type it that sense, dogs which have such bowed queen-anne legs and long long backs that again wouldn't be fit for their original job. Dogs deviating so much from the traditional perception of what a JRT is.
And more concerning, dogs being specifically bred to deviate away from what these dogs are "meant" to be. Yes there's always been variation in looks to an extent, even size to a slight extent, half of the dogs advertised as Russell's are anything but it would seem. Which bodes the question, is the future of a true JRT bleak? Will these white bodied terriers capable of work merge into a multitude of bizzare coloured and looking dogs grouped vaguley under the title of a once great working dog?
I wonder if it's due to the dogs being bred less and less for the original working role, and more for the pet market?
I loathe to see the adverts for "rare" chocolates, or "poacher pocket jacks", and do NOT buy into the excuse of "they've always been a varied type" as it's not strictly true!

Whilst some may say (this was also raised in the discussion!) that even if the traditional concept of a Jack was lost then the KC registered version being the Parson's would be left, but that in itself opens up a lot of controversy with PRT heading into dangerous territory (in some cases, I stress in some) of dogs which are unspannable or without a prey drive at all, which again deviates from the purpose of this breed. Which considering their heritage in working jacks, and white lakelands, is quite surprising. So again, are the show bred version becoming to deviate away from the purpose of the breed in some cases? Thus keeping the look but loosing the substance?
I do wonder if it is due to these dogs being bred less and less for their function or more aptly less and less with the motivation of breeding being centered around producing a working terrier? There's a cheapish JRT book wrote by a John Valentine, it was first published in 97 and covers the JRT and PRT as a whole, denoting in brief that the parsons and JRT should essentially be the same breed, separated only by one being registered and the other not. But more importantly throughout every part of writing, every breed description, every point of breed standard, everything about looks, size, colour, stressed that these dogs being "essentially a working terrier" as one of the most important factors to the substance of the dogs. Including aspects such as dogs should be more white than coloured, ear carriage etc, being dismissed as how neither would affect the dogs work ability, and as how they were essentially a working terrier this was souly important. It provides interesting food for thought to look at things like this from a time not too long from when the two were separated by registration, and when many JRT's were still frequently bred from liasons lined for working purposes, or at least from stables/farms in which "what works" was bred to "what works".
Long post, lots of rambling! But basically, do you think the Jack Russell in the traditional sense, of what the breed was/is meant to be, has any future of survival in breeding true to type in type/looks/workability? Any thoughts or musings really, as my post has become far too cluttered and not quite as concise as I'd like! Wasn't sure whether it belongs in the terrier section or somewhere else so..

I love every variation and type of this breed as they are all equally loveable in their own way, and I definitely don't aim to badmouth any specific variation of jacks. I have just ALWAYS viewed these dogs as just what it should say on the tin, essentially a working terrier. Even if not a workignt errier, it should still be capable of this. And I truly feel should also conform to the type they so often bred too until people started cashing in on "minis" "rare colours" etc.

I dont think they will ever go 'out' totally. Think its more to do with all the cross breeding of other dogs thats going on at present. As you so rightly say, people jump on the bandwaggon to cash in.

There is so many end up in rescues

I like the Parsons - always have done

There were many 'true' Jack Russels down in West Penwith in Cornwall when I lived there. There are many, many very different looking dogs that bear the name of 'Jack Russel' or 'Miniature Jack Russel' here in Cyprus where, unless they want the dogs for hunting - they seem to want them all to fit into a very small teacup.

As far as I'm aware the PRT was orginally bred with longer legs to allow it to keep up with the fox hunters on horseback so that it could then be sent to ground once the fox was found, hence the term "foxing terrier". Now as far as I'm concerned a dogs history and it's resulting breed standard should always be adhered to, in the same way it's hunting heritage should be retained. By trying to pretend that the PRT is exactly the same as the JRT other than it's ability to be registered (and therefore breeding away from the correct type) you are, IMO at least, just as much at fault as those breeding a correctly conformed dog with no hunting instincts.

The PRT was designed with long legs to cover long distances with a hunting/high prey drive and for this reason the PRT and JRT should not resemble each other as far as I'm aware. If you want a terrier but don't care what it looks like, then why not just go for a JRT?

I'm sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick, but I found the post difficult to read so just picked out what I felt was relevant.

VB, I don't see them totally disappearing but the traditional concept of a russell seems to be loosing itself and collapsing under modern abuse of the breed. RE rescue it is sadly often down to totally unsuitable homes buying them as a lapdog, they are anything but. and in regards to the whole teacup thing? Plenty of smaller, lapdog breed that fit that bit too an extent, not a dog described as essentially a working terrier. In both breed standards it states how any marks or scars from work shouldn't stand against the dog, yet how many jacks at hunt show/game fairs/jrtcgb shows, or parsons at KC organised shows have a mark from a days work on them? Its interesting how they seem to be either becoming unreogniseable, or their pedigree cousins seem to be following suite of so so many other terriers in 20 years or so, hmmmn.

. It wasn't quite as picky as perceived, merely questioning whetthewr in both cases the work ethic was being lost, and in jacks whether type was in danger of being lost. They have become very separate dogs yes, which I personally find sad. But are in most senses cut from the same cloth, originally bred for the same purpose in regards to their type of work, hence why I fail to see why one stays so structurally sound barring a fashion for broader frames/heads yet the other falls victim to such drastic alterations depending on what's sellable. I was always informed, as have many, that both parsons and jacks should be "similar" as came about purely from a difference of opinions and want of directions from people who focused on work, and those that focused on showing. But that aside, I fail to see why "type" in jacks is becoming more and more loss, and more are being bred that are totally unsuitable for their original purpose, which I acknowledge is a problem in various breeds but hey ho.

I don't understand why people want a certain breed to work it and then don't breed true to type. It goes both ways - yes show people may well be breeding away from the working instincts, but the same can be said of many working breeders who don't breed true to type. What is the point of owning and breeding a "type" if it can no longer be identified as that particular type?

Both parties are equally at fault IMO due to differences in interests.

Its been a very long day, but you've put across a lot more eloquently what I was trying to say in parts. I can't get my head round why the whole package just isn't considered with lots of breeds, but in particular both fore mentioned dogs.

Heres Totts she was rehomed as a black JRT.



Needless to say I just call her a crossbreed. She does have an urge to work, but shes just my wee Tottie Scone.

Because human beings are selfish as a rule and will breed a dog according to what will make them more successful/more money/more prizes, without a second thought as to what is best for the breed. Sad but true in may cases I think.

I'll argue with that... I think the tide has turned.

The majority of dogs being bred nowadays are being bred for money. Crosses of every which kind, no health tests done, no backup. Quick buck tax free....

I'm thinking of asking my bank manager next week for a loan of £1800 on a guaranteed return - there's an advert in my local pet shop for 3 x 7month old Chihuahuas, all KC reg, must go together. One Teacup bitch, one other bitch, and a dog; perfect breeding opportunity. Don't be so STUPID of course I am not going to use the male on his own sisters!!!! Not when one of my neighbours has a male jack russell, and there's a very nice pug across the road too.

I could get £500-1000 a puppy, and they usually have 4 puppies per litter. They go to new homes and I am laughing all the way to the bank. Such easy money,don't know why I didn't think of it before!!!

I've probably missed the point of your post altogether ... not unusual for me. But 2 years back when I first said I would like another JRT....the last being a real JRT from working parents ...... I got people showing me alsorts, JRT x with another terrier but not a JRT Black JRT, chocolate JRT, a JRT X with PRT, a tan and black one and one that looked like it had a small SBT head
For me it had to be the small type of the right usual colouring, white and black or tri........glad I waited as Mojo is defo true JRT;-)

I think people just X breed, advertise as rare and want the money:-(

As I said, people will always breed to further their own gains, which will include for monetary gain.

Jacks are recognised under FCI, after seeing them in Holland they look for of a toy variety of a Parsons (to me). All the Jacks I know over here couldn't catch a sausage, with their bowed, wrap around fronts.

I'm an owner of a not quite JRT. Fair amount of change in the breed back when Fox hunting was replaced with Badgers. Shorter legs, Chest size less important, more Datschund. Not a huge subcriber to the PRTs either I like them - but they also fall into to my "Not a proper JRT" Category - closer to the fox terrier?. Neighbour over the back of my grans place has a family of 8 though that fit to a tee. All would probably make less than ideal city house pets. Uncle's batted 2/3 - 2 JRTs and a sausage dog.

Still think there's plenty about - just a fashion to call any terrier that isn't KC a Jack russell.

When we brought Jimmi home from DT in Evesham, he was described as a JRT X..........I have since come to realise that he is JRT through and through, both in looks and temperament, with a mighty hunting instinct thrown in.



He came from Ireland where he was picked up as a stray, but given all his scars and missing teeth etc. he was probably used for work. So often we meet people with JRT types (all lovely, don't get me wrong) who point out his scars and ask if he has been fighting. When I say that we don't know, but suspect they are from hunting given that he is obsessed with chasing/digging out/killing prey, these people then look astounded and say that their little dog shows no interest at all in hunting. So the sweet JRT types with their various colours and shapes do seem sometimes to have lost the instinctive drive along the way, and are now purely and happily pets.

But see I don't accept that these varied types are all JR, I accept there is some variety as there have always been room for interpretation of the dogs looks based on the workability of them and the quarry used on, but they should be similar. I don't really accept that people who buy a JRT buy one as they aren't bothered what it will end up like, I know what I wanted and many others do. Breeders like Eddie Chapman prove this theory isn't all that, true to type, super, working jacks. I do think a true jack russell is a rareity lately!

Its funny because Totts although not breed standards has such a strong instinct. she also has the battle scars. Just adds to her character.

Jimmy looks like a JRT to me. I still see a lot of JRTs. Obviously I see more ubiquitous terriers though. I think it depends where you are. It's a bit like the huge number of not quite Staffs I see. If I were to buy a JRT I'd want to see the parents.

A colleague bought a jrt from a pet shop...
Turned out to be a jrt x sbt ....
They loved the dog all the same but not what they expected ..lol