Constant Barking Discussions

Discussion in 'Pomeranian' started by Pegs, Mar 10, 2024.

  1. Pegs

    Pegs New Member

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    Thank you everyone for the advice. We have some work to do with Mookie. Crazy how it just started with the birds/planes after being in this condo 6 months.
    I think tiring him out is also good b/c if his eyes are closed he can't see what's outside.
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  3. Lifew/dogs

    Lifew/dogs New Member

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    I read about the "no" lie. It says your boss walks into your office and just says "no" how do you know what he's talking about? Answer: Nobody ever does that. I had 7 shepherds, I would say, "Candy, NO garbage" and she actually knew what I meant and walked away.
    Never saying NO to your dog leads to frustration. If all you do is clicker training you are not "training" the dog you are getting a performance dog and that's it. When your click trained dog sticks his head in the garbage try saying SIT and see if the dog has a clue what SIT means as opposed to 'NO garbage." I bet PETA went around telling trainers not to say no to dogs. Well eventually they'll tell you not to own a dog because it's cruelty.
    I used a spray bottle on my 90lb aggressive male who lunged at people, dogs, cats, rabbits on my walk and I was dragged downhill on my face 3x. Once I started with the spray NO MORE added to "NO pull Jet" in seconds he was trained I kept it with me for a month then didn't need it anymore.
    I highly recommend using a spray bottle if you can't get attention any other way. A ton of clicker trained dogs who have never been told NO are in shelters. I volunteered at shelters in NH and FL for over 10 yrs. I have a clue. A breeder I know teaches OB and she hates dogs that have never been told NO. She has to uncondition them. She says it makes no sense not to tell a dog NO Bark! No garbage. No whatever.
    Biggest lie for the millennials eating it like soylent green.
  4. Pegs

    Pegs New Member

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    When I tell him "No x" he knows what I'm telling him, ex.: no licking, no jumping, etc. It's just "no barking" that he ignores.
  5. Lifew/dogs

    Lifew/dogs New Member

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    You can reinforce with the spray bottle if there's no other solution. If my 90 lb shepherd dragged me after a rabbit into traffic what difference would it make if i didn't use the spray bottle?
  6. Pegs

    Pegs New Member

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    We will try anything recommended. Thank you
  7. Toedtoes

    Toedtoes Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    @Pegs please don't use punishment or intimidation (ie, squirting with water, etc). It is no more effective than using positive techniques and can result in more problems than it solves.

    Here are some great resources on how to train a dog using force free and positive techniques:

    https://www.dogdecoder.com/blog-dog-body-language/

    https://m.youtube.com/@kikopup

    I realize that the barking is stressful, frustrating, etc. Like I said, my own boy is a barker and was headed into being a major problem. But with positivity and fun, I was able to turn it around. Does he bark - yes. Does he bark non-stop for hours (or even minutes) - no. He barks when he hears or sees something, I acknowledge it, and then he redirects himself.

    And that's the key to force free training. Instead of punishing them into being afraid to do something, you teach them how to redirect themselves. If Tornado-dog hears something outside and barks, and I acknowledge and dismiss it, that's it. I don't have to actively touch and redirect him anymore. He immediately goes off to find a toy on his own. Sometimes, he goes to play with his sister, sometimes he just prances around with a toy in his mouth, sometimes he brings the toy to me for a minute of play, and sometimes he just lays down and goes back to sleep. He's allowed to make his own choice as to the redirection - I have just taught him that once he has given the warning, he can stop worrying because I have it handled.
  8. Toedtoes

    Toedtoes Member

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    @Lifew/dogs as you are new to this site, I would like to point out that the one real guideline on this site is:

    Don't be Contemptible

    It is fine to disagree and to voice differing opinions. But being rude and derogatory towards what others have to say is not OK.
  9. Lifew/dogs

    Lifew/dogs New Member

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    Wherever did you get the idea I was referring to you personally? I read an article on clicker and responded to that.
    If you have reading issues people should know about that, please.
  10. Pegs

    Pegs New Member

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    I'm going to work on distracting and redirecting his attention. I never treat trained my Yorkie and the commands that Mookie knows weren't fully based on treat training, but I will incorporate his favorite treat to get his attention away from what he's barking at. I know that in time with consistency the barking will become less and more when really necessary.
  11. Toedtoes

    Toedtoes Member

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    CaroleC and Pegs like this.
    @Pegs I don't normally use treats either. What I do use to reward varies upon the dog.

    Different breeds and individual dogs have different motivations. It's about finding the motivator for your dog that makes it work.

    For example, beagles are very much foodies and are highly motivated by scent. So, using food scent to redirect them can work well and a treat reward at the end seals the deal.

    In contrast, jack russells are motivated by fun. Watch them doing agility runs - they are having the time of their lives out in the ring. That fun is their motivation. Make the desireable behavior more fun than the undesireable behavior and they will respond pretty much immediately.

    On the flipside, watch a border collie doing agility. They are super focused. Their motivation is to do the job the absolute best they can. It's not that they aren't enjoying themselves - it's just that their motivation is about doing the job not about having the fun. Even if they dislike the job, they will do it to the best of their abilities. They are the overachievers in the dog world. Whereas the JRT is the dog high on life.

    And each dog has his own motivation. Even within beagles, the preferred scent/treat may differ. Or you may have a beagle who goes against party lines and prefers a toy to a scent.

    If you are in the states, you can look up a trainer in your area to help with the barking at https://www.ccpdt.org/dog-owners/certified-dog-trainer-directory/

    The Certification Council of Professional Dog Trainers (CCPDT) certifies trainers who adhere to the LIMA policy (least intrusive and minimally invasive). They are a great resource.
  12. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Toedtoes likes this.
    I did wonder if we were being taken as being millenials. If so, I am quite flattered as I joined my first dog club, (obedience), in October 1953. My training methods have morphed a lot over those years and I probably do a lot of things that purists would think of as wrong. I do lure with treats. I will use, 'No' - as long as the dog understands what I am No - ing. (For example, 'No licky feet', when my Beagle's dermatitis is active). A low 'No' can prevent a broken stay or a wrong move. My training theory can be summed up as reward what you want them to repeat, and either distract from, ignore, or prevent what you don't want them to do, (or to keep them safe).
  13. Toedtoes

    Toedtoes Member

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    @CaroleC to me you hit it on the nose "as long as the dog understands what I am No-ing".

    It's not the "no" that provides the instruction. It's what comes after.

    Just because your dog knows that "no licking" means not to lick her feet doesn't mean she will know what "no bark" means. You have to teach her what you mean when you say bark.

    And that's where so many get training wrong. They think that dogs inherently understand what we mean with words. But dogs aren't instinctually fluent in human language. You have to teach them the meaning of the words.

    I watch my boy. If I say "let's go", he starts jumping around. But he doesn't know if he should go to the front door or the back door or the kitchen, etc. He is waiting for the rest of the instruction. If I say something he is familiar with, he will race to it. But if I say something new, he turns and looks at me. He doesn't know that word. He doesn't know what he should do because he only understands part of the instruction. I have to teach him that new word before he can act on it.

    And it really doesn't matter what word you use, the dog is simply connecting what you say with what you've trained him to do when THAT word (or combination of words) is spoken. You could train the dog to sit using the command "kerfunckle". To the dog it makes sense because you've trained him to connect kerfunckle with the action of putting his butt on the ground.
  14. Pegs

    Pegs New Member

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    Toedtoes likes this.
    Thank you for the trainer directory link. We have reached out to a couple trainers in our area. Hopefully we will narrow it down in the next week or so so we can get started with a professional soon on top of us working with him now.
    Mookie is for sur motivated with food, but he loves to play too so we'll start with a toy and if we have to go 1/2 and 1/2 it's what we will do.
  15. Lifew/dogs

    Lifew/dogs New Member

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  16. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Toedtoes likes this.
    One of the original versions of these is the Zazzer - they are still available online. There was talk of issuing the postal staff with them to stop aggressive dogs. I don't think it ever happened though.
    I was given one to try, but couldn't get any response beyond a cocked ear. When I read the small print it said it was for dogs under 13 lbs. The dog I trialled it on was a sturdy JRT, so probably over that weight. So, of doubtful value for all but toy dogs.
    I really don't like these 'quick fix' devices. They may work as behaviour interruptors, but need to be paired with a well-timed positive response to be effective as a training aid.
    There is an Ultrasonic Pet Trainer that has both a negative and a positive sound - I was also given one of these to play with. I found it little different to using a low, firm 'No', followed by a short, happy 'Yes' for compliance - which doesn't need to be carried around with you..
  17. Toedtoes

    Toedtoes Member

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    A relative got the vibration collar to stop barking. Her dog barked nonstop whenever someone approached the door. With the collar, the dog soon started running under a table shaking whenever someone came to the door. The vibration scared him and he quickly associated it with the person at the door.

    Did it stop the barking? Sure. Did it create a bigger problem for them to overcome? Absolutely.

    It sounds like @Pegs is on the right track with redirection and reward and a force free trainer to provide guidance.

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