Having a Problem with Merry Behaviour

Discussion in 'Beagle' started by CaroleC, Aug 16, 2015.

  1. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Having a Problem with Merry

    Merry is 6, and has now been with us for 3 months, she has had three litters, and was spayed about two weeks before she came to us. She has lived with other bitches as a kennel dog all her life. She has been difficult to get clean in the house, but by staggering our bedtimes, she was making progress and managing to be clean for up to about 6 hours.
    The last fortnight she has gradually slipped backwards, and although her night has been shortened to 5 hours, the last three nights she has done a small wee, despite of doing one outside immediately before going to bed. She is not shut in, and the dogs sleep in the room next to ours. She has also had a small leak in the car a couple of times over the same period. The amount is only puppy sized, so last night I provided a pee pad - which she was careful not to stain!
    Any ideas anyone? Could this be connected to it possibly being the time she would have had her season if she hadn't been spayed? (This has never happened with any of my previous bitches though). There is no indication of any cystitis or similar, and, if anything, she is rather too fit!
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  3. Janet

    Janet Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    If it's not cystitis or some other kind of minor infection, not sure what it could be.

    The only time I had a problem with a leaking bitch (!) was with Jessie, a cocker spaniel, but this was something which developed when she was very elderly. We didn't have her until she was about eight (her owners lost interest in her. Then soon went out a bought a new puppy). Anyway, she had been spayed very young, before her first season.My other bitches were not spayed until they'd had a couple of seasons and never had any problems.

    Hope it's something easily sorted.
  4. Pork1epe1

    Pork1epe1 Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    It could be USMI .. Urethral Sphincter Mechanism Incontinence which I've read is fairly common in spayed bitches and can occur any time up to a year after spaying. It can be controlled by medication. Perhaps a trip to the vet is in order?
  5. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Thanks ladies. You are echoing my own thoughts. I was hoping for a vet-free break, but it needs sorting as OH is beginning to lose his usual tolerance. I'm a bit worried about going down the Propolin route if there is any chance she can train her bladder though. Ed is due for a check on his jaw next week, I'll ask then.
  6. Janet

    Janet Member

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    Jessie was prescribed Propolin, but I decided to take her off it because something I read made me uneasy about it. I just coped with loads of puppy pads and loads of washable vet beds.

    However, making a decision to more or less put up with it is easier when the dog is already 16, as Jessie was, rather than with a younger dog where the problem could go on for years!
  7. Trouble

    Trouble Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    Have you thought of trying bitch pants with an incontinence pad in them to prevent any patience being lost? I have entire bitches and use them when in season but they can be used for incontinence too and the pads are cheap in Tesco's. Glendarcy is where I got mine http://www.nappypantsfordogs.com/female-dog-seasonheat-pants-49-c.asp
    Rio was on propalin for around a year it worked extremely well and she was on a very small dose for her size.
  8. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    We have just had a whole week of wee free nights, Ta Dah!
    Merry had started choosing to sleep in an open crate, so without drawing any undue attention to it, I began to pass her a couple of toys and shut the door. I don't really like to shut dogs in at night, but we are now back to 6 hour nights, and no accidents so far. We plan to try 6 1/2 hours this week.

    I wish I could say the same about the car. Last week Charles had her out 3 times while Eddie was having his 90 minute training session. Although she had performed on the second occasion, there was still a wet Vetbed when I put Ed back in the car. I am now thinking that this has got to be a pack related, (there were over 20 Beagles where she came from), form of separation anxiety, as she has never done it (yet!), when they have been left in the car together.

    I'm optimistic that we might now be on the winning side, but I love her more every day - whatever - I haven't had a dog which gives such lovely cuddles since my Cavalier days!
  9. 6JRT's

    6JRT's Member

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    I have read somewhere that breeding bitches that have had more than 3 litters can leak when lying down due to pressure on her uterus, not sure if it said before or after being sprayed.
  10. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    @6JRT's She had two small litters, and one of seven. She was spayed 4 months ago, so doesn't have a uterus any more. I don't think it can be leakage, as she is super clean all through the day, and hopefully we have now also cracked it at night.
    My money is still on sep. anxiety when Ed is taken out of the car to work - after all she has lost all her former friends and relatives. A friend has suggested crating her without any absorbent bedding, for the short periods that are involved, but in our main car the dogs have a shared area with a tailgate, and I think that would take too much space away from Eddie.
    I think she will come to accept his little absences in time, but it's a good job she didn't go to live as an only dog.
  11. 6JRT's

    6JRT's Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    Could try having stuff dog with Eddie's scent on when Eddie's not around xx
  12. Janet

    Janet Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    ....or even better, get another dog!
  13. Malka

    Malka Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    What good ideas!
  14. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    6JRT's, Malka and Janet like this.
    A soft toy dog could be a very good idea, unless she weed on it - or shredded it!
    Another dog, she, and I would love, but I think OH would leave home.
  15. Chris B

    Chris B Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    If she improved in her house training and then fell back, the very first thing should be a check to make sure it isn't a UTI. They can often have an infection without any other sign that the incontinence
  16. 6JRT's

    6JRT's Member

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    Malka likes this.
    Do what I do smuggle one in house then play all innocent when asked about the extra dog x
  17. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Thanks Chris, and if I do come to suspect this, I'll be there straight away.
    The night time situation is, up to now, back to normal, though I'm keeping the crate closed at night for the time being. The little in-car piddle only happens when she's without Ed's company - Wednesday night training, or occasionally at one of his weekend events. To my way of thinking, it just has to be behavioural.
  18. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    6JRT's and pugluva like this.
    Just a quick update to say that Merry is still clean at night, and has not had any dribbles in the car for the last three weeks.
    She can be rather too exuberant, but is quickly learning house manners, like waiting for permission to eat, and to go through doors and gates. Her recall on a line and off lead at training is good, but I have to be careful outdoors as she is other dog fixated, and would be off like a bullet!
    She wouldn't look at vegetables when she came, but now eats all that she is given - except mushrooms. We had very few strawberries this year, as Merry eat nearly all of them. She is now picking her own blackberries on our walks, a reminder of Tweed, who did the same thing. She is in training for her KC Good Citizen Silver level, though I think we'll have a big problem with the 'Ignore Food' exercise!
  19. pugluva

    pugluva Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    Sounds like you have made good progress in a short time well done.
    I have rescue girls here and it can take a while to house train them. But they do get there in the end, some take longer then others tho, I have had them take up to year you think there clean then they take a step back.
    She sounds very clever so she should sail through the kc good citizen good luck.
  20. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Shhh! Don't tell Merry that I've told you but, she has wet her bed 5 times in the last 10 nights!

    Today we took Merry and a urine sample to the vet and, apart from being a little too dilute, the sample was clear for all their in house tests. They also sent part of it to a specialist lab - the vet phoned tonight to say that this has also come back clear. He asked for a further sample from a later part of the day, which he will test tomorrow as a double check, but provisionally M has been diagnosed with spay incontinence, and starts on Propolin tomorrow. (At training tonight, I learned of a Beardie bitch which developed this within a few weeks of being spayed).
    Perhaps because of Eddie's saga, I keep health logs for my dogs, and can see that this latest episode is exactly 6 months since her previous lapse, which appears earlier in this thread. I can't help but think that this has got to be connected to her hormone cycle, but the vet seems non committal. I would like to think that she was not going to need Propolin every day for life, but they seem to think that the best we can hope for is that it can be tapered down to a small maintenance dose.
    I would be interested to hear if anyone has had experience of this 6 monthly cycle of incontinence - is it possible to just use Propolin when it is needed, or once started, is it for life?
    Always something new to learn about dogs!
  21. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    Sorry to hear about Merry, I know nothing of Propolin, have you tried Nutri-Vet Bladder Control chewables or Homeopet Leaks no more, if one doesn’t work completely on its own I believe you can combine the two.

    A friend of mine used these and they worked. For her bitch.x

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