Presa mauls pensioner to death - do we need better controls on who can own one? Controversial

Discussion in 'Presa Canario' started by Azz, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. Trouble

    Trouble Member

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    6JRT's likes this.
    Why does it matter where they got the dog from or why they bought it?
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  3. Azz

    Azz Adminstrator

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    Do you have a link Carole? I'd be interested in seeing what the dog looked like..
  4. 6JRT's

    6JRT's Member

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    That's true what really matters is the fact they neglected to look after the poor dog, resulting in someone being killed by the dog.
  5. Malka

    Malka Member

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    It actually does not matter. Except to the poor man who was so mutilated that he died as a result of the dog being starved of food and water.

    But just think of this.

    Supposing it had been one of their children mutilated by the dog? Would you then ask why it mattered where they got the dog from or why they bought it?

    I am sorry - this whole story distressed me from when I first read about it, and as the news got more and more detailed, the more it distressed me.

    Yes I was being sarcastic about pet stores and I know that Harrods no longer sell wild animals. But to be honest I thought that no pet store was now permitted to sell live animals, however large the store is.

    And at the end of the day you have an elderly man who was literally eaten alive. His brother who still cannot sleep for the knowledge of what was done to his brother. Neighbours who witnessed something that still haunts them.

    And two young children whose mothers have been taken away from them for reasons they are too young to understand.

    And those two mothers will not serve the 12 month prison service - probably three or four months maximum.

    Tragedy all round.

    The wrong dog in the hands of the wrong owners - but no, I do not know what the answer is.
  6. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    I've tried Googleing BBC North West News for yesterday, but can't find the photo which was shown. Coverage in the Mirror page, but the photo there is a stock image, (cropped ears).
  7. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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    Not sure why you feel the need to patronize I only answered you post’ Yes that about sums it up, though where it came from is irrelevant.

    YES there are Pet Shops who sell numerous breeds they buy them in from Puppy farms and Commercial breeders/dealers one pays their money and off they go and its all legal. Sadly its from these establishments and Harrods that most of Celebs buy their dogs.


    As for Harrods still selling lions, I haven’t looked lately for one !!.
  8. Azz

    Azz Adminstrator

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    Here ya go: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27686676

    It's difficult to tell from the photo, but it looks like a cross, or a very young Presa to me :/
  9. Trouble

    Trouble Member

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    GsdSlave likes this.
    Dog with unfit owners who shouldn't be trusted with a hamster let alone a powerful dog.
  10. Malka

    Malka Member

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    @GsdSlave

    I am sorry Vee - I did not mean to be patronizing - I am fully aware that I frequently use incorrect language - more strongly than I should do. But I honestly thought that it was illegal now for pet shops to sell live animals - I have not lived in the UK for a very long time now and had no idea that is still went on.

    As for Harrods and lions - I was totally out of order mentioning that. Guess I was trying to lighten up my distress a bit.

    Did not work though but did upset you, and for that I really do apologise as it was not my intention.
  11. katygeorge

    katygeorge Member

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    me to malka, although shes only beating me by 1.5 kg
  12. katygeorge

    katygeorge Member

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    As the subject has been brought up i have to chip in. Not all security dog breeders will sell to anybody. None of my friends would sell a pup to a novice ever, they would only sell a rejected pup as a pet to an experienced owner (this isnt always fool proof as they can talk the talk) and dogs with potential will only sell them to other security dog handlers. There has been special circumstances where somebody who really wants a working dog to do trials, obedience, agility ect have been sold dogs but its not often. Then there is the other side if they are not selling the dogs till 6 months old then no security dog handler worth his salt would buy one. The whole point of the security dog is its bond with handler it doesnt care about the property its the handler its protecting and the training is the biggest time for building that life saving bond and you wouldnt want a dog trained by somebody else either. On occasion a handler will take on rescue my brother has had 2 rescues himself as well has helping to rehome many dogs in to working homes that have come in to rescue in the age range they can work with and are showing drive. Im not saying the above is always the case but its how it is with the people i know, im quite sure there are security firms, handlers, breeders and trainers out there that me and my friends would believe to be doing it all wrong but thats life. Once security dog handling is actually regulated as the sia keep saying it will be i think alot will change as currently any body with a sia badge can buy a dog and call them selfs a dog handler and go out working as one. As for selling trained dogs to public at 6 months old i think its about the most stupid thing ive ever heard and will not end well.
  13. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Azz - I can't find the photo there, but if you click on 'read more' it says the dog was, 'a Bullmastiff crossed with either a Presa Canario or a Bandog'. Yet again, a media distortion.
  14. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Malka likes this.
    Malka, Eddie was one of these unfortunate puppies, bred in Ireland and sold at 12 weeks through a 'Dog Supermarket' - like a bag of potatoes. He was in his first home for just two weeks, before (unable to cope for reasons of family illness) being left at a rescue centre.
    These commercially bred puppies have a poor start in life, resulting in complex behavioural problems. Ed was obsessive about food and water, travel sick on just being placed in a car, and couldn't tolerate eye contact. Fortunately he is now a well educated Beagley Angel, but I don't know whether I would have been able to cope with a giant breed with similar problems.
  15. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Carole - I had no idea that these "Dog Supermarkets" existed. To be honest I knew nothing about puppy farming until I joined Dogsey.

    I bred Griffons way back in the 1970's/80s. In my own home which had a purpose-built brick room - window, heating - for nights for my girls. And I never had more than three adult Griffs at any one time.

    During the day, of course, the dogs and any puppies I had had the full run of the downstairs of my house [you do not let highly explorative dogs like Griffons near stairs or anything less than a 6' fence], plus a very large garden, as well as their own room if they wanted to go for a quiet time.

    I was, and still am, a Kennel Club registered breeder, even though the last litter I bred was in the early 80s. And my KC Affix was registered for life so it still belongs to me.

    But I was not a "back street breeder" - another term I had not heard before I joined Dogsey. I was a legitimate KC registered breeder such as there was back then. The Approved Breeder scheme, or whatever it was, did not exist then. My local council also were happy with what I was doing, as were my neighbours.

    My puppies were so sought after that I had waiting lists I was never able to fulfill - and they never left me until they had had at least their first two vaccinations and were [mostly] housetrained. Were taken out [in bags to start with] so that they were fully used to people, other dogs, and all the sights and sounds of the outside world. And were fully used to car travel.

    Call me ignorant and you would be correct. My knowledge of breeding, raising puppies and then selling them [and I lost more than I care to think of in the process] was mainly to do with Griffons and other toy breeds, and with the help of the best mentor in the world.

    So yes, I was ignorant and obviously still am, as until your post I did not know that these "Dog Supermarkets" existed. In my ignorance all I knew was that it was banned for pets to be sold in pet shops - well after I left the UK though I think.
  16. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Yes Malka - we have the same background. My affix was registered in the 60's and is still in use for my obedience rescues. I also bred my last litter (house reared of course) in the 80's, most buyers stayed in contact all their lives.
    BTW the friend I travelled to shows with had Griffons as well as Cavaliers, so it's possible that we have met in a former life!
  17. Azz

    Azz Adminstrator

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    It's shown in the video at the link I posted :)
  18. 6JRT's

    6JRT's Member

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    Malka here are few photo's taken at Harrods pet kingdom

    These poor puppies are in tanks
    Dogs-kept-in-small-tanks-at-Jumanji-Pet-Shop-in-Kilburn-North-London.jpg

    Prices of puppies being sold at Harrods
    french bulldogs.jpg

    y2epy6ap.jpg
    last weekend 030.JPG

    img00333-20090704-1503.jpg

    The pictures of living conditions for these poor dogs are far to cruel to put up.
    BYB's & puppy farmers are not bothered about the state of their dogs they just see money signs in front of their eyes
  19. Malka

    Malka Member

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    I have been unable to take a screenshot of the dog shown so cannot post it, but in the article

    http://tevel1.com:81/news/uk-england-merseyside-22696126

    it states

    But - a man was tragically killed. The dog was shot. Two women have been jailed. And two young children are currently without their mothers.

    And the brother of the man who was killed is now calling for all dogs to be muzzled in public..

    http://tevel1.com:81/news/uk-27696950

    Only that dog was not in public. It was in its own garden from which it escaped.

    So when is public actually public?
  20. Azz

    Azz Adminstrator

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    Here's a screen grab from the BBC story..

    p1.jpg
  21. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Tina, Harrods "Pet Kingdom" is closed.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...epartment-to-shut-after-nearly-100-years.html

    Please note that the date of the article is 10 January 2014 not the date that the article has been re-published.

    I do not know when those photographs you posted were taken, but they were definitely not recent, as according to Harrods they do not sell pets now.

    Another article for you in which it states

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...ace-it-with-womens-fashion-floor-9050931.html

    Published: 10 January 2014

    Harrods do not now sell animals.

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