Border collie information wanted urgently. General Chat

Yes, there may of course be environmental causes, but I think you are missing the point. If a breeder produces dogs with epilepsy on a fairly regular basis, and the parents of the litters share common bloodlines, then why would anyone assume it must be environmental? If puppies are in different homes in different parts of the country or the world, and other dogs in the same home, with the same environmental factors do NOT have epilepsy, then would you still believe there was not a common factor? Any breeder of Border Collies should of course be aware that this is one breed where there is a strong potential for genetic links. I feel there is no justification for continuing to breed from the same parents if epilepsy has been produced. Even once is once too often in my book.

Such a pity a Gene has not been found yet for epilepsy in the border collies. They have located the Gene in Belgians Shepherds. Kate there are some epilepsy that come from Trauma and poisons. A lot of vets will utter the words Idiopathic as they can not find a cause but it still means the dogs are epileptic as there is no Dna sample for the gene to be found. There are hereditory lines in collies for epilepsy. Its still a taboo subject. There is a fitting database. This is the link. Ihave decided not to put my bitch Shyla on just yet for personnal reasons but she will go on it at the end of this year.
http://pbhfbcfittingdb.yolasite.com/

It's not necessarily because they can't find a cause as perhaps because the owner doesn't want to put their dog through any more tests just to end up giving him the same treatment whatever the cause.

My dog was diagnosed with ideopathic epilepsy for this reason. I did find out afterwards that there is epilepsy in his line (litter brother of his sire has full blown epilepsy).

Who are "They" and what links can you please supply to support that fact. Because on none of the Epilepsy Lists and Forums has there ever been any mention of a gene found in that breed.

Researchers at the University of Missouri and University of Toronto have, so far, found the gene which causes epilepsy in Standard Poodles, but even then there is no current test for it.

They have also identified the genes responsible for two rare epilepsy syndromes in dogs: myoclonic epilepsy and ceroid lipofuscinosis, but in two breeds only as yet. Miniature Wirehaired Dachshunds and Basset Hounds for Lafora and Ceroid Lipofuscinosis in English Setters.

LINK

The Veterinary College connected with the University of Glasgow is also very much involved in epilepsy research.

But just because research has discovered a gene in three breeds, it does not mean that they have found a cure. A cure for epilepsy will not be found in my lifetime, and maybe not even in the lifetime of my youngest grandchild.

The data base you mention will only be of use if all breeders of Border Collies agree to join it. Until then it is just a list of people who have "fitting" dogs.

And I am sorry, but I do not like or agree with the term "fit" or "fitting". My epileptic dog, who I love more than I have ever loved any of the dogs I have had in my long lifetime, does not have "fits". She has epileptic seizures.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120323205337.htm

I had another Collie Bitch that was diagnosed with Idiopathic Epilepsy. She had all the tests. She had epilepsy in her lines.

Many thanks for that link. I will pass it on to the Epilepsy List as it is not in our Archives.

You are more then welcome.

Shyla's grandmother was diagnosed with Lafora and sadly was put to sleep after a massive seizure. Clusters that just continued.

I dont own an Astra dog and had never heard of the line before this thread , I also have no knowledge of epilepsy in dogs ... but one thing from this whole thread jumped out at me straightaway

Bordercollie6 ... if you have nothing to hide and what you say is true and will be backed up by your vet why not hand over the proof to the Astra breeder ?
To not hand over your proof to me seems very dodgy ... almost like theres no proof there for you to hand over and you are just blowing smoke
You may not like the woman but surely if its the dogs & future pups who will suffer (and their owners) then giving the woman the proof she asks for makes far more sense then continuing an online battle

People can think what they want. And yes you are right it does look dodgy. This breeder and me have a lot of history and yes as i may not like the female. i did however give her a chance but as per usual same old same old excuses. People on here are only getting what she wants people to read and only half the story. Personnally i do not want anything to do with this female again. If only people knew the truth. I am not about to start copying and pasting things as its a waste of time and energy. Eplilepsy is a problem in border collie lines. Admiting it and trying to do something about it is what i care for. Those that will not admit to epilepsy in lines are ticking time bombs when it comes to breeding.

So give her the proof and let her do something about it if you care this much ... you dont need to have anything to do with her , just email the info and be done with it

You're just dodging the whole 'proof' thing again in your previous post

I am in no doubt that some people DO know the truth. At the end of the day, some people here are continuing to fudge the issue with the same old mantra about genetic proof. What good would it be to send veterinary proof of a dog having epilepsy to a breeder when they will continue to hide behind the fact that the vet cannot give "irrefutable proof" of it being genetic? Should that really be the be all and end all; "No one can prove it's genetic so it's OK if I keep using the same dogs to breed again"?

What a load of twaddle!

It looks dodgy because in my opinion it is dodgy!

If you have some evidence to back up your accusations you would do so. The fact you even state there is some history between both of you just goes to strengthen the other persons argument. I don't know either of you but I know who I believe. You could put an end to all of this and strengthen your corner but are not willing to do so. WHY? From an outsider I honestly feel you are damaging your reputation and not Miss Beales. End of.

Colin

After reading this thread and like others feel confused, but my overriding feelings are concern for dogs' welfares........ Kate not sure if you have deliberately twisted the 'proof' line of thought but seems to me the proof required is that her dog did indeed have elipelsy, whatever, the cause. there hasn't been one bit of evidence that this dog has it. If this proof exists it must be shown and given to the Astra breeder who said that they would work together to contact all other Astra owners etc. etc. But by not providing this 'proof' is either showing it is all frankly a load of rubbish OR condemning a boatload of future pups to a horrific and very painful short life.
If it is the latter case, it is an absolutely disgraceful situation and this Caroline should hang her head in shame.....not showing the proof 'because of a history with the breeder'...... When dogs are dieing!

I am in NO doubt that Kate you are either Caroline or a close friend because after reading all the threads I am perplexed as to your post above....

I've had enough of this post and am not wasting any more on it.
Caroline... SHOW US THE MONEY and end this. Kate (or should I call you Caroline) get on with it...

Colco, no, I am not Caroline; what an odd thing to say! Get on with WHAT exactly? You have no idea who I am or what my interest in this thread is, so why are you making idiotic comments?

Whatever...

The top and bottom of this thread is not about epilepsy or any other ailment. It's about bordercollie6 having a go at janet beale. How anyone in their 'right mind' can support or even in their very wildest dreams support what she is saying is totally crazy (see my previous posts) I think it's run its course and a moderator should step in and delete.

Anyone who agrees that its fine to publicly bad mouth and slag off anyone and a budiness in a public forum without any evidence to back up claims obviously has alterior motives (such as theyre a competitor or just don't like them) is nothing short of libel. If it were me I'd take legal action. Look at media for crying out loud, people get fined, locked up etc for such things on social media such as facebook, twitter, DOGSEY.COM... work it out for yourself...

I couldn't agree more. Perhaps if a few of us used the report button or whatever you do - it will disappear.

What I do find VERY odd is for bordercollie to refer to anyone as 'the female'?????

What's that all about? That's not a normal way to talk!

What's wrong with using their name, or nickname, or even 'woman' or 'lady'?

But 'female'? Very strange indeed.