Herding - Confusing You Tube Clips Discussions

Discussion in 'Working Dogs Forum' started by Kanie, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. Kanie

    Kanie New Member

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    Margaret

    Herding - Confusing You Tube Clips

    :shock: It's generally a lottery what You Tube comes up with, but I'm getting a bit confused / cynical perhaps, by all the clips from the US that show all kinds of breeds 'herding' (often to strangely inappropriate soundtracks, but we won't go there!!!)

    These dogs seem to be walking either losely to heel, or not too far from the handler, who is walking behind some very stoical, calm sheep and the handler is basically asking the dog to stay just behind and not go in. The flock seem to be 'turned' by the handler positioning themselves, using a stick to guide the flock and again, asking the dog to more or less watch.

    I know everyone has to start somewhere, but what is 'herding' to you? To me, it means actually collecting or rounding up sheep / cattle / goats and the dog is at '12 o'clock' and the handler at '6 o'clock', so the animals are collected into a flock and then driven back towards the handler.

    My dog is a heeler, which is a different sort of stockwork. His job is to keep animals moving, by going in and biting if necessary (and no, it isn't cruel) He is designed to be very low to the ground and very lithe and agile, so that he is only connecting with the heel and can avoid being kicked or trodden on. He will also 'speak-up' when asked so that he can use his voice to shift them first, before resorting to the teeth! A dog that went for the heels was considered useful around butcher's yards and markets and farmyards because the actual meat would not be damaged.

    What I see on those clips is more akin to heeling, or just driving animals along, as opposed to the herding we see in sheepdog trials.

    :?: So what is going on?!!!!
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  3. Moobli

    Moobli Member

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    Kirsty
    I can't watch utube videos (no broadband :x ) but anyway, from your description, it sounds a bit "different" to me :?:

    Herding, at least in the context of sheep on a hill farm, can be anything from a dog being sent out (varying distances and terrain) to gather a flock (of differing numbers) and sometimes out of sight, naturally stopping at the point of balance behind the sheep, then bringing them down to the shepherd. Depending on what is required, a dog should be able to drive sheep away from the shepherd, bring sheep into the pens, catch a lamb, stand up to tups, shed a sheep off from the flock .... and any number of variations of the above :grin:
  4. muttzrule

    muttzrule New Member

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    Rachael
    Well, its hard to tell from your description what you are talking about. What breeds are we talking, because as you know, different breeds work stock in different ways. Second, these may be the dogs first introductions to stock, or even just a herding instnict assessment of the dog. When I took my dog to herding lessons, she remained on lead and I remained close enough to stop her if I needed to. The sheep/goats were extremely tame as they were used to train stock dogs day in and day out. It made for very unexciting videos, but as you say, everyone starts somewhere!

    Herding here is a very different thing than it is where you are. There aren't as many places where herding dogs are genuinely needed here. Many dogs trained to herd are done so purely for herding trials and never actually work at herding. Even here in Texas.
  5. Kanie

    Kanie New Member

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    Margaret
    All sorts of breeds seemed to be doing it: Malinois, GSDs, Corgis, Rotties. I know every breed of pastoral dog has its own specialism and style of working, but these clips seem to be a 'one size fits all' sort of exercise. I did wonder if they were meant to just show the dogs were taking an interest in the sheep - but I'm just really curious to know the context these videos were made in and what the ultimate aim of the handlers is.

    There are loads - just put any pastoral or working breed and 'herding' in the YouTube search engine....
  6. Crysania

    Crysania New Member

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    Crysania
    I'm wondering if perhaps they're from herding instinct tests? Could you offer up a clip or two so we could see them?
  7. Kanie

    Kanie New Member

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    Margaret
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRaLls1kRuc&playnext=1&list=PL194C8D7080CE14A0

    Now it makes a bit more sense! I've found a clip that shows the whole test from start to finish (although it still confuses me a bit)

    If the link doesn't work: I just put Malinois Herding into the You Tube search engine and it was a clip from Nexxus Malinois.

    I wasn't sure if the handler was actually Belgian or French or Canadian - or whether she just yelled at her dog in French! Either way, I've got that annoying Lady Marmalade song going round my head now:lol:
  8. Johnclick

    Johnclick Member

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    I'm not a sheep farmer but I did have a herding dog for sixteen years. Bogi was a Hungarian Puli and was extremely interesting as a pet. A very good trait was that feeding him was a breeze; You just leave his kibbles in a dispenser and he absolutely would not overeat. I helped him with his very strong herding instinct by throwing all of his toys (about 12) in the pool and then getting in and throwing them out one at a time. He would race to retrieve the toy and then line the toys in a row at the side of the pool. This was by far his favorite activity and I would have to stop after a while because he would become totally exhausted and never stop on his own. We have Bogi's ashes in a memorial urn in our living room.

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