Ethical cross breeding??????????????? Controversial

I have no idea what you`re angry about because I haven`t seen said thread, but having read your first post I just wondered.....

why don`t you post about your lovely puppy and say how great he is and how much you love him instead of picking a fight? :?
People on here have all sorts of dogs and all sorts of opinions. But we all love dogs. That`s what brings us together.
So personally I don`t give a flying fork about what sort of pup you`ve got. He`s here, he`s yours and he is (I`m sure) lovely.

HD is heriditary in some breed including Labs and if you xray the parents it tells you if you have a problem or not.

Most breeding is done without health tests.

I don't see why crossbreeding should be looked upon as any diff to ped breeding.

Breeding without health tests is an interesting issue. Certainly ideally they should be done but many times are not and the dogs are ok.

Adam

Of course it matters if they were tested! If puppy buyers insisted on health tested parents than eventually all dogs would be healthier.
Puppies already bred in puppyfarms already exist but every puppy bought just lines the pockets of the irresponsible breeder and makes room for the next one. NOT saying your puppy's breeder was a puppy farmer just that that line of argument doesn't stand up.

Also believe Labs can be prone to HD, but in fact most breeds are being tested for it now.

You are right in that some people on here just don't like pedigrees being crossed and all the health tests in the world wouldn't make them happier about it. Just like some people don't like Affen's because they have flatish faces, just a matter of personal choice, no point taking offence.

But I think you'll find that what most people dislike is the careless crossing of un-tested parents which is often accompanied by far fetched claims of getting the best of both breeds, hybrid vigour and ridiculous prices (again not referring to you.)

J.

just wondering generally why most people have a problem with "mutts".
I previously asked a general question about the cross, wondering if anyone has any experience with them, and all you seem to get when you talk about a cross is grief from people, not just on here, in general.
and none of these people had the dog i was asking about, the people i did only had good things to say.
He is lovely and the best boy ever!
I never said there was anything wrong with him but as soon as you mention "cross" peopl think youre irrisponsible.
I just wondered why, wasn't talking about me personally.
Negative attitudes seem more commen that positive ones.
Just wondered what the problem was cos I've never experienced it before.

I have mutts, 2 of which I believe came origonally from Puppy Mills that breed crossbreeds for profit... and one is deaf. and then I have 2 purebred Dachshunds, that came from irresponsible breeders trying to get rare colours without doing the research, so consequently, they're both deaf and sight impaired. Only one of my dogs is a true mutt, a street dog. So I can honestly say that breeding practises can lack in both the cross breed side, and the pure bred side... HOWEVER You are wayyyyy more likely to find a breeder of purebreds that breeds ethically and responsibly, than you are to find a breeder of crossbreeds that is. Health tests and genetic tests should be done on EACH AND EVERY BREEDING DOG, no matter if they're purebreds or mutts. it should always be done. If you get a dog from a breeder that doesn't do it, than that breeder is irresponsible.

It might be interesting for you to know, that here in Canada 75% or more of dogs are unregistered (meaning mutts or from BYB's) And on top of that, around half of the dogs I see come from shelters and rescues. I dont know if that means we're more of a throw away society with our puppies, or if we're more likely to rescue than buy. My sister, who owns a CKC registered Westie, often feels the need to defend her choice of getting a purebred puppy to people. We are almost opposite to your country, where mutts are more accepted, and rescues best of all.

I dont have any problem with people owning crossbreeds and mutts, as long as they are rescues or from responsible breeders.

Ahh! a sensible non offensive awnser.
I can assure it was farm with cows and sheep, not a puppy farm, the thought of that makes me wanna vom.
I don't like the fact that people can breed animals at all with out having some sort of licence or permit.
In my work we can't do anything without a licence and permission from the home office.
Yet you can produce as many dogs as you like and noone bats an eye lid.
That said you can't change things can you?
so people get the impression most cross breeding isn't done in a resopnsible way, not the quality of the dog? i mean the fact it's not a pedigree.

I think it stems from the fact that there are tests available to ensure your dog doesn't have a genetic problem that is either giong to kill the dog, or potentially leave it poorly in some way for the rest of its life.

For instance, I have Boxers. They are fairly well known for having potential problems with their heart.

Anyone that researched Boxers as a breed would see from the many breed/owner clubs, that heart testing should be done, and dogs bred from only with a certain score.

If you breed from an untested dog, or a dog you know to have heart problems; you could be producing puppies who could, at worst, drop dead after exuberant play; or at best, be condemned to a lifetime of medication, scans, gentle on lead exercise for 8 years, as their heart condition is so severe, they can never run around like a normal dog.

Now, imgaine if you bred an untested Boxer (who also are a breed prone to cancer) with an untested Labrador. At absolute worse you could have a dog with a serious heart problem, hip and/or elbow displaysia, and some serious eye problems (PRA, MRD, cataracts etc) and a predisposition to mast cell tumours.

I know that the above could be a massive exaggeration. Fair enough.

However, proper health tests also enable owners and breeders to try and 'breed out' these problems, so that no-one ever watches their 10month old puppy drop dead, or ends up having a dog with such severe joint problems that it has to be PTS before it is even 5 years old.

That's why a lot of us on Dogsey are so anti-cross-breeding.

Who has a problem with them , cant see anywhere anyone who feels that way,

Firstly I did not say ALL farmers in Norfolk, you said he bred due to a demand from other farmers in the area, YOUR area not the county.

You stated they where proven to be good workers, hence the demand for him breeding a second litter,

Did I read right that no adults were there when you bought your pup?

So did you see either parent?

rune

.So the seller was stating that they made great workers so I take it the breeder never kept one from last litter then ??

Yip they may need a home but this is a repeat mating according to your posts so no need imo especially when done unethically

Well imo you bought from an unethical crossbreed breeder so YOU and many like you will not be helping towards changing things. Until Joe Public stops buying from irresponsible breeders then things will not change

Hear hear!

Oh dear...

I'm afraid you have seriously misunderstood the vital issues here

Having a vet check means nothing. A vet cannot check for the serious diseases that Labradors, for example, are prone to.

And it doesn't matter what the parents looked like - I don't care if they were swinging from the ceiling!! That has no bearing on how the puppies will be!


You have, alas, become part of the unethical, and awful cycle of people wanting a dog, not doing research, and thus buying from either a back yard breeder or a puppy farm.


I pray that your dog is healthy and that you don't end up with - as can and does happen - a dog that goes blind at the age of two, heaven forbid.


Just to think, there are so many gorgeous dogs in rescues that you could have adopted. Instead, you have reinforced and rewarded unethical breeding.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.


'puppy farm' does not literally mean a farm where puppies are bred....!!!

A puppy farm can be A HOUSE, a flat, it can be anywhere!!

It really just means any place where dogs are being mated, repeatedly and where puppies are being produced on a regular basis, where no health testing of the parents is done at all, and where often the dogs are being kept in terrible conditions!


And sorry, but the fact remains:

You bought from someone who DID NOT test the parents - thus you bought from an UNETHICAL 'breeder' who doesn't give a damn what happens to the puppies!!

Oh, and by the way - I couldn't care less about x breeds. All I care about is that both parents are health tested.

I know...but can also be environmental...hence I choose other examples

ETA - I think hip scoring should be done on BCs and elbow testing as well on labs.

Wasnt aimed at you hun was a response to the OP but I quoted the wrong post and couldnt delete it sorry

Fair do's - just confusion

I don't get the impression the op brought from a puppy farm. I get the impression they brought from a farm that had a x bred litter for sale.

Many farmers breed the odd litter and sell the excess off as pets at least around here.

Adam

If no health tests were done on the parents, then this man is an UNethical breeder - simple as that.