Are certain breeds doomed - because of their owners? Discussions

I've been on a Presa site lately, and it's quite depressing - it's like going back in time 100 years. Cropped ears are the norm, prong collars and general attitudes are just quite saddening really - it's a shame that such breeds usually end up with the type of owners _least_ suited to them :?

Are some breeds doomed because of the type of owners they attract? How could we even begin to combat that?

Sadly, short of legislating for the lowest common denominator and persecuting the vast majority of responsible dog owners, I don't know how it can be combatted. The people out there who want a dog as a penis extension are always going to go for the 'gladiator' breeds, i.e. the smooth haired, muscly mastiff/bull breeds. You can't ban them all and even if you could they'd just move onto another breed, then another. Our woeful BSL here in the UK has proved that.

I'm not saying that all the owners of these breeds are like that, but enough of them to have the tabloids foaming at the mouth.

My husband sees a lot of it at work (he is a support worker in a hostel). All of the residents who have spoken to him about dogs say they want a dog when they get their own place and they all want Staffies but when he asks them what they know about dog ownership the answer is "nowt"!

They just perceive the breed as being "hard" and a status symbol like a pair of Nikes.

Like Dokhyi says if you banned one breed they would just go on to another similar looking one.

It has been a bit of a problem here in Norwich though with undesirable people owing this breed and now our local MP is trying to bring through a dog control order for one part of Norwich where a couple of people have had their dogs killed by Staffies sadly.

I guess it was an overseas site, Azz - as ear cropping has been illegal here since the time of Queen Victoria (along with docking horses' tails which was done for fashion's sake as well).

So in countries where it's still seen as acceptable then that mentality has to be a retrograde step.

Likewise prong collars - they aren't illegal here but very few people use them. However an internet friend a few years ago said she used on on her Labrador as she'd been recommended to on a forum. Thankfully I put her straight - she ditched it, looked into better training methods & now she fosters dogs for a local rescue, she's on her 10th!

My sister bought a prong collar for her GSD some years ago after being talked into it by American GSD-owning friends. She ditched that too, said it really didn't have much effect. Hers had protectors over the bases of the prongs - I guess if you want to go for bare prongs or even sharp ones, then that will probably work in a barbaric way But might come under the Animal Welfare Act as causing 'unnecessary suffering' ?

Attitude you can't do much about really, but if you can ban all the accoutrements of torture and outlaw ear cropping, then that takes away a lot of the "accessorising". I understand that Holland has gone one stage further and banned ownership of ear-cropped and (I think possibly also) tail docked dogs.

Banning of owning ear cropped dogs here in UK would be a good thing I reckon and with the relaxation of import laws it's getting easier - not harder - to own a cropped dog.... if you were the sort of person who wanted one.

What about the the cropped dog that belongs to someone who wishes to live in the UK, it would mean they cant bring their dog with them.

Most people who do own cropped dogs here will be breeders who have imported them for their bloodlines, NOT because they are cropped.

I doubt very much you will see the "macho" stereo type walking the streets with cropped dogs, due to the fact the hoops they have to go through to import, not to mention the cost.

Although we did have a footballer play for our local team, a few years back, that brought his cropped Boxer with him from where ever .

I would hope that the Government would have learned its mistakes after the draconian and totally useless DDA! Banning a particular breed of dog just doesn't work - either the scum who want dogs as a status symbol or, even worse, for intimidation or dog fighting activities, will either still get their hands on the "banned" breed or will move to another "macho" breed, or produce crossbreeds that serve their purpose.

The breed of choice in the city here, is a staffie. Have to say though, most of them look very well behaved and cared for, with great temperaments.

Helen

Good point - maybe people coming here to live should be allowed to come over with a cropped dog but people importing an adult (who live here already) should not.

There are people importing cropped dogs because they like the look of it - I saw it mentioned recently.

hi azz , i too was looking on another site, a bull breed site.
someone was asking for help with there prong collar , they wanted to know if it was ok to use the prong collar low on the dogs neck instead of high behind the ears. as the muzzle the dog had to wear, interfered with the action of the prong! :-(

some people! I bet they had a shock collar too! :?

from the replies it seemed like this is the norm, with most answers saying as long as the prong works it will be fine. i think it was an american site.
i thought things were getting better for dogs, the attitude of most people i meet and people i know is that dogs are dogs what ever the breed, its the idiot owners that are the problem. unfortunately there are a lot of idiots,
i would like some sort of dog register and licence system where every dog had to be registered and every dog owner had to have a licence to own and buy a dog, so if someone was banned from owning a dog,they couldnt actually buy one, and maybe some sort of simple exam before owning a dog, maybe some breeds of dog couldnt be owned as a first dog.
im sure that to set up a system like that would be very costly and difficult, and im being nieve.
but apart from having an idiot cull i cant think of anything else, apart from education which is why stuff like this site is very important.

It's often the same with Caucasian Ovcharka sites. All competing about who's dog has the 'strongest' temperament etc. I left all those sites because I was sick of it. I love LGDs and mollosser / mastiff breeds etc. but aggression has no place in modern society and I don't see why these people cannot see it. I was also on a rare breed fb site and people with Bully Kutta were showing off about what great fighters their dogs were.:-(

Yes, I agree - cases could be made for special dispensation, as is already done with the legislation on docking genuine working breeds. Those who are coming to UK, or those who want a specific dog for breeding (and are bona fide breeders, members of breed club etc.) I'd have no issue with.

Might be sticky with new breeds where they are traditionally cropped in their homeland - not Pits or other fighting dogs, but thinking more about the flock guardians. Many of the original Anatolians were cropped... I saw a presentation at an animal event in the late 80's that included many of the first imports, cropped ears and iron spiked collars.

There again, if you could argue it was done for genuine working purposes and an ancient custom, as in tail docking of many breeds, that could be worked with too, but with the eventual aim of eliminating it.

It's getting easier to import dogs - it's also getting easier to import semen for AI from other countries. The more countries that ban cropping and docking, the more countries who still do, will be open to leave some dogs undocked and uncropped.

I saw a cropped Dobe recently. It was weird seeing one in the flesh!

Even weirder, if you go to the USA, is seeing Boxers with cropped ears!

I saw some cropped Boxers in Portugal. I must have looked all goggle eyed at these dogs!

I would think it`s very few who would do that, the cost of the dog plus the cost of injections and transport to get said dog over here , just so you can show it off, wont get very far off the ground.

There are a few kennels of Boxers here with cropped dogs, I don`t find it weird at all if I see one, just usual.

I don`t have a problem with people bringing cropped dogs here, either with them if they come to live here, or to introduce new blood into their lines.

This thread got me thinking about why it was that the four breeds banned in this country were actually banned - what were their crimes? Was it due to actual attacks or more the fear of what they *could* do? Or might it have been to do with the fact that those types/breeds of dog would more likely be used in dog fighting, or go into the wrong hands for intimidation purposes?

Argh! Don't get me started! Speaking as someone who's lived with a LGD for the last 7 years that thankfully, the breeders are pretty responsible about who they sell puppies to and don't harp on about 'strong' temperaments or who has the biggest dogs, you really don't need idiots owning a dog smarter than they are because they think they're well 'ard owning one.

I know the person who previous had CO and CAO has now imported a few Bully Kutta into the UK and I really can't see any good coming of it for the breed if they get established. The only thing it proves is how the DDA doesn't work and is yet again is totally arbitrary in the breeds it banned.

We live in a largely suburban society and the last thing we need is berks with 100 pound plus LGDs as a penis extension.

Whats a LGD ??