Bandog Discussions

Hi Bolty
Bandogs are very confusing indeed and the more you learn the more confusing it gets
I'm no expert but as far as i know:
All those breeds you listed could be part of a Bandog breeding.
Bolty wrote:
and dose it have to be pure bull X pure mastiff = bandog or can it be bandog X bull breed = bandog or mastiff X bandog = bandog or bandog X bandog = bandog

Bull x Mastiff= F1 Bandog
F1 Bandog x Bull or Mastiff = F2 Bandog
Bandog x Bandog = True Bandogs

Depending on what the Breeders are looking for in there Bandogs really decides what Breeds they prefer to use!
There are breeders that have successfully breed 6/7 generations of Bandogs and now don't need to add new blood.

Bolty wrote:

1 moor thing where would these come into it

bullmastiff
boxer
rottweiller

All 3 can be used in a breeding
BM's are a original Bandog so to speak there were bred from Mastiff's and the original English Bulldogs(not the KC Bulldog of today)
Boxers were another breed created to be more like the English Bulldog of old(the original alternative Bulldog)

Bolty wrote: the orig mix for a bandog is american pit bull terrier X neapolitan mastiff
where as a american pit bull terrier X bullmastiff is called a = american pit bull mastiff

Apbt x Neo is classed as a American Bandog or a Swinford Bandog
where as Apbt x BM can be classed as either, Bandog or American pitbull mastiff( just different names for the same breeding. Like Snickers and Marathon same product different name)

Hope this is understandable
here's a place you might like to look at:

http://members.boardhost.com/bandog/

Ok now im reallllly lost! :smt017

thank you russ that is the reply i was hoping for
Bolty

Call it what you like but the reality is a pedigree crossed with a pedigree is a cross breed and those cross breeds bred with anything else be it pedigree or cross breed produce mongrels. It takes many many generations of careful selective breeding and careful record keeping to produce a nw 'type' or breed.

If there is no such thing as a Bandog (they are just mongrels), why is there so much information about Bandogs on the internet? Why is there this thread called Bandog? Why is it not called Mongrels? Dog owners, people that own Lurchers, are they right to call their dog a Lurcher as they are just different breeds crossed. They do not breed true to type either. If Lurchers and Bandogs are just mongrels and a mongrel being a mix between different breeds does that mean that Lu1's Florrie (west Highland White X Dandie Dinmount Terrier) can be classed as a Bandog as you say Bandogs are just a cross between breeds.

A mongrel is classed as a mix of breeds.
A pedigree is a dog of a single breed
A cross breed is a dog bred from 2 pedigrees

A bandog is a type of mongrel(or cross breed)...same as a lurcher.These 'types' are bred from specific pedigree breeds and are often bred for a purpose.There is information on the net about anything you chose to look up.
To 'create' a breed takes many many generations of careful planning and choice breeding...not just 1 or 2 matings.
I have nothing against crosses or moongrels...have owned both but with the increasing number of unscrupulous people who are crossing recognised breeds to create 'new designer breeds' such as pugaliers and labradoodles and then conning people into thinking that they are buying a new 'EXPENSIVE' breed I think it is important to know the difference
P.S....you Ruby is lovely

Couldnt agree more on that one, it isnt an art, it isnt a science it is something that has to eb perfected over many years!

so lu1 your saying if you get a pit that looks like the 1 in the pit bull page thin and weedy and X it with a dane you would get a extremely stocky built dog in the end?
is that right to you

this has nothing to do with my previous post, i am not saying this, i clearly stated on the American pit Bull thread, that SB's post had been taken slightly out of context and i tried to explain certain things. I have no idea what a Pit cross Dane would be, and do not state anywhere that i do
best wishes

a dane X pit would be a bandog

And as i have said before, i have little knowledge of bandogs in general, but u seemed to leave this part out in your quote.
I dont, nor claim to have little if any knowledge on this type of dog, therefore i have not said such and such a breed crossed with another willl create a bandog, therefore there is little point in making out i have.
No lets end this little debate, as this isnt a thread for it, this is a thread for pictures and information on the bandogge

if you have little knowledge of bandogs then how can you say what they should be like, i have no knowledge of jrt so i would not say any think that i was not 100% sure on

this debate is about bandogs in the bandog thread so i see no reasion why this cant be put in hear,

Here's abit of an article written about the history of the Bandogge.
Was going to put a link up but auto-edit won't let me

Quote from article:

The concept of the Bandog, that being the mixing of two or more breeds with a specific purpose and function in mind is as old as K9 history. Since man stepped out of caves to hunt wild beasts for food we have harnessed the abilities of domesticated dogs to enable us to survive.
Later when man developed farming and building skills, dogs were used to guard livestock from predators and property from raiders and thieves.
The first actual reference to the use of the word Bandog that I can find dates back to early tribal Britain. The Celts as they were known to be then, kept large ferocious dogs for the specific purpose of fighting their enemies. It’s not precisely known what type or conformation these dogs were but they were often referred to by Roman writers when translated into middle English as “Bandogs” or “Behmoths”. Its likely that no specific type was favoured so long as they were ferocious and imposing. It is also likely that given that these dogs were probably native to Britain at that time, they most likely would have been heavy coated to protect them from the harsh wet weather. It has been reported by some heavily biased Victorian K9 historians that these dogs were so prized by the Romans that they were transported back to Rome in large numbers to be used as War dogs and as fighting and baiting dogs in the Roman Amphitheatres. However, I do not believe this to be true. There is an abundance of written and pictorial evidence of fighting and baiting Mastiff like dogs, also used in battle, in Rome long before the Britain invasions. These dogs would have been the ancestors to the most ancient of all Mastiffs, and the earliest known fighting dog, the Neapolitan Mastiff. What is more likely is that the Romans used the Celtic Bandogs in Battle as arrow and spear fodder. That’s what war dogs were basically used for.

Further on in history and there is mention of the “Bandogge” in Arthurian times. King Arthur’s court was held in the Bordeaux region of France for over 40 years. Arthur was known to be a keen Boar, Bear and Stag hunter as well as enjoying baiting sports. He had his own strain of Bandogs purposely bred for these tasks, a mix of “Matin” (used to describe a mastiff before the word mastiff was derived from that word) and Alaunt, a fierce white hunting/gripping hound resembling the modern AB.(American Bulldog)
They were also used to patrol the Battlements. It is thought that these great dogs were the foundation ancestry of the DDBX.(Dogue de Bordeaux)

Now if i want to call Miss Daisey a Bandogge i will ;-)

There's alot more to this article so if anyone wants to read ithe rest i can send you a link via email

As far as I understand it Bandogs were mongrels produced by crossing anything that the owner fancied would produce either a fighting or a 'hard' dog, so there would seem to be no answer to the question "what is a Bandog" it is what ever you want it to be. The name Bandog in days gone by did not refer to a breed of dog nor even a crossbreed the term meant a fighting dog so could be used to describe many dogs popular in the long distance past but not required today as in the UK we do not, or should not, have fighting dogs.

Bandogges were protectors.
Bandogge = Intruders worst nightmare
Ok not so many enemies around now, but a dog that can back up its bark when its 2 in the morning and theres someone trying to smother your kids is my kind of dog

Think we have read different research papers, those I read stated the dogs were used for Bull bating and called in the UK Bandogs, this name later taken up in the USA and used in general for fighting dogs, they are not and never were a particular breed the name was given to dogs used for a particular purpose. Like most things that died out hundred + years ago the truth may never be known as in different areas dogs were used for different purposes, the thing that all reports seem to agree upon is that they were named by the work they did and a dog of any breed or cross could be given the name Bandog if that dog fulfilled the purpose to which the name was given.

Yes i'll agree there

Bandogs are bred to create fitter, healthier mastiffs because pure bred mastiffs are not as agile and functional as they were. They are primarily bred for protection, not fighting They are an effort to preserve the working characteristics of the mastiff with the tenacity, longevity and health of the pitbull or american bulldog.

Heres a couple of one of the white pups in the bucket earlier on in the thread, she's 11mths now & starting to fill out. She stands @ 25" at the shoulder.

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/Fatmamf/baileyside.jpg

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/Fatmamf/baileygeniecroped.jpg ​

Theres seems to have been at bit of a debate about these dogs since I have last visited of what they are or should be.
I have always thought of the Bandog as a of a type of dog (bullbreed X Mastiff) not an actual "breed". In the way that the Swifford Bandog AKA American Mastiff (Neo X APBT) & Moseley's Bullmastiff (English Mastiff X Bulldog) were "Breeds" of bandog. Both created by generations of line breeding to create their desired traits.