Bobtail Boxer - It's NOT a boxer! General Chat

Discussion in 'Boxer' started by Bodhi, Apr 8, 2006.

  1. Boxer5

    Boxer5 New Member

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    Elizabeth
    I have had a boxer pal (5 actually) for 40 years and had never heard of bob tails until I browsed a site looking at puppies to see what prices are expected these days (my present babe is now 9 years old). 'Natural' bob tails were advertised some in litters with 'varying lengths of natural bob tails'. My first reaction was 'there is no such thing as a naturally short tailed boxer'.

    Having read all the comments on all 12 pages and referring to breed standard over the past goodness knows how many decades, I still believe there is no 'naturally bob tailed boxer'. What there appears to be are previously cross bred derivatives that masquerade as (previously) Kennel Club standard boxers.

    I am old school and love the appearance of a short tailed boxer. Mine shows her age by being a docked boxer - probably one of the last. I have few doubts about proper docking carried out by vets. However I know from experience that some breeders have done this themselves with disastrous results. My first boxer 40 years ago was a hashed job. It didn't however affect her wonderful character or temperament.

    As for a previous comment about 'no facial expression' I would respectfully suggest that person does not have a close relationship with their boxer. All mine have had the most wonderfully expressive faces of any breed I have come across. You can see what they are thinking and as for the comments about other dogs not being able to see what they are communicating, their body language is equally obvious. Boxers wag their whole back end in friendly greeting; unfriendly greeting is a puffed up stiff posturing to intimidate other dogs. It is VERY obvious.

    Best dogs in the world but with tails they tend to be confused by the uninitiated public as 'pit bull types'.

    Will I go for the 'natural bob tail' next? The jury is still out on that one because despite all the comments by other subscribers, and all the genetic 'evidence', I'm not convinced.
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  3. bijou

    bijou New Member

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    yvonne
    I think part of the problem is that Boxer breeders have traditionally bred for a high tail set ( as have other previously docked breeds such as Dobes ) this means that when the tails are left on they are VERY noticeable often curling right over the back - if breeders bred for a low tail set then the outline would look tons better -is this something the breed clubs are addressing ?
  4. Paxtonpup

    Paxtonpup New Member

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    Becky
    Personally I completely disagree with the introduction of the bobtail gene, the natural boxer has a tail and that is how it should stay!

    Introducing a foreign gene to combat a specific health issue is one thing but just to alter the dogs appearance to suit some individuals if you ask me is wrong.
    As has been previously stated these bobtails are now not being allowed to compete in the showring in Germany, does this not say something??
    I love my boxers the way they are meant to be all full of personality AND tail!!
  5. purplepiglet

    purplepiglet New Member

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    Phil
    Having read all the comments about the introduction of Corgi genes into the Boxer pool changing the Bobtail temperament and character, I can definitely say that Bobtails ARE still Boxers. I grew up in a family that owned Corgis but have kept boxers for most of my adult life. We lost our last one last December to Cancer and have just bought a Bobtail pup. He is, without a doubt, a typical Boxer character and no Corgi pup I've ever seen behaves the way our new Bobtail does. The reason we went for a Bobtail was because in my mind a Boxer HAS to have a short tail. In my opinion, they just don't look right with a tail. He's not going to be shown or bred from, he's a family pet, so I'm not really bothered about the 'Borgi' jibes. All that matters to me is that he has the Boxer look and temperament, and by all accounts they do.
  6. Carole

    Carole Global Moderator

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    Carole
    Welcome to Dogsey :)

    Looking forward to seeing some photos of your pup :) I lost my oldie to cancer too in December :( Her line of boxers is mainly a bobtail line so if in the future I decide on another boxer it would probably be a bobtail as I would like one of her close relations.
  7. sandrasandra

    sandrasandra New Member

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    maxine
    How many attempts over many,many years were made before the so-called Boxer affect of a short tail Boxer was attained ?
    In plain words How many pups were euthanized ?
    Anybody who seeks the truth just go to the French Kennel club. There you will get the truth. The pedigree is stripped,quite correctly, so one cannot show with the bloodline that has been adulterated by people who wish to prosper at the expense of our beloved Boxer.

    If anyone is thinking of purchasing a Boxer it would be wise to avoid the dog that has been tinkered with and go for a verified Boxer.sandra
  8. bijou

    bijou New Member

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    yvonne
    Given that the bobtail gene can cause horrible spinal and other problems if doubled up on , I'm puzzled why anyone thinks introducing this into the Boxer breed ( which already has it's fair share of health issues) is a good idea !

    If people don't like the natural tails then either breed for better tail sets or get another breed .
  9. Boxacrazy

    Boxacrazy New Member

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    Boxacrazy
    If you'd bothered to read the articles on the bobtail you'd know that it was in the 2nd generation of the cross.
    That there appeared a puppy that was Boxer in type and look, she was called Jane. So not over many, many years.

    None to my knowledge, they were all placed in pet homes.
    They were invited back to Dr Cattanach's home for garden parties in the summer. I personally can state this as I have attended more than one of these as a guest before I owned a bobtail.

    Why should anyone that seek the truth go to the French Kennel Club? What truth's do they have? I suggest anyone that wants the truth go to Dr Cattanach himself. Why would a foreign kennel club have all the data? The UK Kennel Club would have the whole data, not the French Kennel Club. As our KC registrations are not automatically registered with every worldwide Kennel Club. You have to apply to register any UK Kennel Club registered dog with other Kennel Clubs along with your pedigree and the UK Kennel Club registration documents.

    In actual fact your statement that one cannot show the bloodline is incorrect. Under FCI rules you CAN show the full tailed litter siblings of those that have bobtails. The ONLY disqualification is that of the natural stumpy tail.
    So you can have a fully tailed one with exactly the same percentage of Corgi that can be shown under FCI rules.

    Dr Cattanach did not create the bobtail Boxer to prosper.
    If people want to know why I suggest they go to his website and learn the facts http://www.steynmere.co.uk You need to click on the genetics button.

    Whilst it is true that the commercial element amongst man have got hold of bobtails and are profiting by charging inflated prices (sadly) but this happens in all breeds/crosses where they try to charge more for 'rare' colours or tea-cup sized dogs or the 'oodles or 'poos or any other cross (as people are sold them as more healthy version than a pedigree poodle, cavalier, bichon, beagle, pug etc). It's not exclusive to the bobtail Boxer. But perhaps this is why breeders should be endorsing puppies prior to sale but the commercial element don't care they will just register them with the 'alternative registries' out there. After all most people that want a puppy do so because they want a pet they don't want to show it...so have no interest in if you can show or not, or if it has the right registration papers. They only care that they want a puppy that looks a certain way or is a certain colour or has certain markings. That's the supply and demand ethos of ANY commodity regardless if it's a living being or an inanimate object. If there is a demand for something but there isn't a lot of that 'something' then the purchase price is increased (regardless of the ethical/moral right's or wrong's) rarely you will come across someone that won't charge the inflated prices. But it's not the norm.
    Also a lot of people want a puppy and want them now regardless if they are the right home environment for that breed and because of the I want it now mentality they will not wait for puppies that are from ethical breeders. Instead they choose any breeder that has what they want & when they want it.

    Dr Cattanach has achieved several things in the Boxer breed (a breed he has been involved with since 1945 and has had success in breeding and showing, having had many champions carry his affix) with his genetic knowledge he has helped the Boxer breed/breeders eradicate health issues such as PA (Progressive Axonopathy), reduced AS incidence (Aortic Stenosis), reduced BCM (Boxer Cardiomyopathy) and is currently working on JKD (Juvenile Kidney Disease). He has also helped other breeds with diseases that have a genetic basis.

    I suggest that anyone that wants to buy a Boxer (regardless if it is a bobtail or not) does so from health tested parents.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 30, 2013
  10. purplepiglet

    purplepiglet New Member

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    Phil
    Here is a picture of our bobtail, Alfie, who is now coming up to six months old. If it looks like a Boxer and behaves like a Boxer, it IS a Boxer. I can assure anyone undecided about getting a bobtail that they are no different to any other boxer that I've come across.

    Attached Files:

  11. mic_comte

    mic_comte New Member

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    Michael
    Thank you Boxacrazy for your explanations. I think Dr Cattanach is a great breeder, and he achieved something really usefull for the breed. Trying to get rid of the bobtail boxers because they have 0,1% of Corgi blood, really makes no sense at all.
  12. Steven Drew

    Steven Drew New Member

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  13. Azz

    Azz Adminstrator

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    Your posts are empty @Steven Drew, did you mean to post anything?
  14. purplepiglet

    purplepiglet New Member

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    Well, our little ALFIE has just had his first birthday. He is a bobtail and, contrary to some people's opinion, he is DEFINITELY a Boxer! He looks and behaves exactly like every other Boxer I've ever owned. We had Corgis when I lived at home as a child and if there is any Corgi in Alfie it doesn't show in his temperament at all.
  15. fieldy

    fieldy Member

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    25,000 views on this post pheeeweee!
  16. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Well the thread was started rather a long time ago! ;)
  17. Velvetboxers

    Velvetboxers New Member

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    Helen
    If anyone has ever owned a crossbred Boxer they will know that the marvellous characteristic Boxer personality always shines through. Going by previous posts that must mean that any crossbreed that contains a Boxer in its parentage is a Boxer - sorry couldn't resist that :p

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