Buying a blue staffy pup Discussions

Discussion in 'Staffordshire Bull Terrier' started by elaine cook, Jan 31, 2012.

  1. Jackie

    Jackie Member

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    Jackie
    I agree 100%, it seesm anyone that comes here to ask about buying a puppy is bombarded with..........."why not rescue " ,from every side.

    People should be allowed to buy a puppy without being made to feel they are contributing to the rescue problem, because they dont resue.
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  3. elaine cook

    elaine cook New Member

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    elaine
    Have to say you do feel bombarded with people offering you rescue dogs whenever you ask any question on here! And it does make you feel guilty when you say no or just avoid it!! It's nice when people get into a bit of a debate on your thread, but only if it's about the subject asked!! You feel like you have to justify why your not rescuing when it's a personal choice
  4. Krusewalker

    Krusewalker

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    kiwi
    Dawn, your last paragraph is redundant as I just said chose any promotional based analogy you find appropriate, as the analogy was the point. Im sure I am wrong about the workings of your business, but that isn't my interest. Otherwise you still haven't written anything I regard as an issue. I read it and think ' so'? it's a dog site designed to cover every aspect of the dog world , as long as people are polite, room for everyone. Azz doesn't seem to mind, so there you go
  5. Borderdawn

    Borderdawn New Member

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    Dawn
    Yes Kruse, there you go. :grin:
  6. dougs85

    dougs85 New Member

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    Dougs
    thought the thread got off topic as long as you find a breeder that does health checks there shouldnt be a problem, my uncle has a blue staff he is almost 13 and has had no skin problems at all when i think hes had no health problems at all. It all depends on the individual dog. Anyway good luck when you decide to get your pup :)
  7. Murf

    Murf New Member

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    murf
    I know i know but i have to show you Gracie @12 weeks ..
    I do not know if she is still there but i had to share....
    [​IMG]

    PS
    Never feel guilty about buying a pup from a good breeder ...
    Long may good breeders be there for us ...
  8. Kerriebaby

    Kerriebaby

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    Claire or KB
    If the good breeders, stopped breeding, then dogs will be in a much poorer state!
  9. Dobermann

    Dobermann New Member

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    Natalie
    I think if your buying from a litter where a blue has cropped up, rather than been bred on purpose then fair enough...i think the problem is that many people who are specifically breeding to produce blues, have no intention of furthering the breed, every attention to making money, so corners are cut. A good breeder selling you a blue pup should be open about what possible health implications may arise IMHO. If they are denying any such problem may crop up then they are to be wary of, I'd think.

    Good luck with your puppy search.
  10. Zuluandnaomi

    Zuluandnaomi New Member

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    Naomi
    Completely agree with the above. Have just commented on your post on our beloved staffy forum Elaine, but I would seriously question the credability of a breeder focusing on the breeding for colour purposes - to get a blue. To get the colour guaranteed I doubt their priorities would be the general health and temperament of the dogs as long as they can produce blue pups. I would get in touch with other breeders instead where a blue pup could crop up in a normal litter and ask them to notify you.
  11. dougs85

    dougs85 New Member

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    Dougs
    i know a few people with blue staffords and a few kennels that breed blue staffords good breeders that do health checks that have not had any health problems at all can i ask where the source of the info that blue staffords have more health problems than other colours comes from so i can do more research please. I was under the impression that it was only a colour that was it as long as you have had health checks on the parents then you have nothing to worry about.
  12. Zuluandnaomi

    Zuluandnaomi New Member

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    Naomi
    Not saying ALL blues have problems and ALL breeders breeding blue are bad, but I would haev to question their ethics that their prime focus is colour.

    Blues have issues specific to them such as colour dilute alopecia http://www.ehow.com/way_5526154_canine-color-dilution-alopecia-treatment.html

    Staffies are prone to skin issues anyway and bad breeding with blues (there is a lot of inbreeding with them too) can cause you extra issues
  13. Zuluandnaomi

    Zuluandnaomi New Member

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    Naomi
    Not trying to put the poor woman off buying a blue dog - nothing wrong with them at all. I personally just think it is better to go down the route of a breeder that isnt breeding for colour alone.
  14. Dobermann

    Dobermann New Member

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    Natalie
    I don't think there is a health test for passing on auto immune diseases or alopecia etc, just experience afaik. So there aren't any tests to say a blue will have issues that they are more prone to etc, I'm sure Leadstaffs or Brundog will have better/more info than I can give though.
  15. Sal

    Sal New Member

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    sally
    It is a recessive dilute gene that causes the colour blue,therefore it dilutes the pigmentation,i.e you will never get a black nose on a SBT,which the standard calls for.

    A breeder here which admits there are issues with Blue staffords and they own one!
    http://smokemontstaffords.vpweb.co.uk/-BLUE-SBT-S----DILUTE-GENES.html
  16. Alphatest

    Alphatest Adminstrator

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    Azz
    Who's bullying her? Certainly nobody here.

    There's nothing wrong with suggesting a rescue - however the only reason I posted is because she said she wanted a puppy and that's why she didn't look at a rescue, I just wanted to alert her to the fact that there are actually lots of staffy puppies in rescue, in case she hadn't realised.

    Generally I would take time out to post about a rescue if

    A) it was a Staffy (the number 1 breed in rescue)
    B) a GSD (the number 2 breed in rescue)
    C) a crossbreed (lots of lovely crosses in rescue)

    And they'd only be suggestions - I completed understand why:

    A) People would prefer to buy a pup from a good breeder
    B) Why people might not want to deal with a rescue because they don't agree with some of their rules/ideas etc
  17. leadstaffs

    leadstaffs New Member

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    Chris
    If you decide to buy a Staffordshire bull terrier pup.

    Then as a minimum both the health status as regards L2 Hga and HC of the sire and dam should be known.

    If both parents are Clear then the pups will be clear of both conditions.
    If one of the parents are a carrier then the litter should be tested so which pups are clear or carriers are known.

    Both sire and dam should have a current eye test, (last 12 months) The test will be for PHPV and PPSC.

    Lots a good breeders now also eye screen the pups before they go to their new homes.

    Responsible breeders breed for health, Temperament and type not just for colour.


    A dog from a responsible breeder will likely cost no more than from a bad breeder and will cost the same to feed.

    The best person to contact for a good pup from a responsible breeer is your local breed club.

    If you tell me were you are I will let you know who is your local breed club.
    My advise would be to never buy from a breeder that charges extra for KC papers. Make sure you know what genuine papers look like before you view a litter.

    Good luck with your search.
  18. Brundog

    Brundog New Member

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    Dani

    excellent advice
    and would just like to point out that I don't feel that rescue is rammed down anyones throats, the OP initially did not specifically say that she dint want a rescue for whatever reason, and whilst I totally respect people wanting to buy pups for the right reasons and from the right breeders, rescue still should be allowed to be mentioned without being accused of being rammed down anyones throats.

    I would also suggest that perhaps we are all talking about rescue because so many flipping dogs are in rescue and that shouldn't be ignored either.

    I don't see anything wrong with suggesting rescue pup.
  19. dougs85

    dougs85 New Member

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    Dougs
    The blue colour in Staffords Is very much misunderstood. The gene carrying the blue colour is a simple recessive gene that affects the coat colour and nothing more. The actual quality of a litter is dependent on the quality of the parents but both must carry blue to produce blue puppies.

    In the past, Staffordshire were generally red, white pied or Brindle in colour although an occasional blue one turned up. These are believed to have originated with the Blue Paul. The Blue Paul’s were of an all blue colour but they sometimes produced Brindle or reds which were known as red smuts in Scotland. No one seemed to have full knowledge as to how the Blue Paul’s were bred or from where they originally came. There was a story that Paul Jones, the pirate, brought them from aboard and landed some when he visited his native town of Kirkcudbright about 1770. The gypsies around the Kin Tilloch district kept a lot of Blue Pauls which they fought for their own amusement. They maintained that the breed originally came from the Galloway coast which lends colour to the Paul Jones legend.

    From all writings on this now extinct variety of bull terrier, all seemed to be agreed that they were a highly intelligent breed of dog in spite of the somewhat cruel sport they were used in. They were affectionate and tractable, obedient to a fault when engaged in their work, mute even under the most trying circumstances. They were game to the death and could suffer much punishment. They were expert and tricky in their fighting tactics which made them great favorites with those who indulged in this sport.

    The general appearance of the Blue Paul is that of a smooth coated, powerfully built dog weighing about 20kg and measuring up to 50cm at the shoulder. Head-large, forehead flat, muscle short and square, large and broad but not receding like that of the bulldog. Jaws and teeth even with no over changing flews, slight dip between the eyes which should be dark hazel and neither sunk nor prominent or showing haw. Ears-small, thin, set on high, invariably cropped. The face not wrinkled.

    The eyebrows contracted or knit and when the dog lowered one side of his face when at attention, this gave the dog a peculiarly intelligent look. In fact there was an expression in the face of the Blue Paul that has never been seen in any other breed and one can frequently recognize his blood in cross breeds from this peculiarity. Body-round and well ribbed up, back short broad and muscular but not roached; chest very deep and wide; tail set low and devoid of fringe, rather drooping and never rising above the back. The dog stands straight and firmly on its legs, forelegs stout and muscular, showing no curve. Hind legs very thick, strong and well furnished with muscle. Colour was the dark blue we see in greyhounds. With his excellent fighting skills, the Blue Paul was introduced as part of Stafford breeding in the early 19th century and the blue coloring has appeared in

    Staffords ever since. The genetics of the blue Stafford are the same as for the Great Dane and Greyhound. The colour appears as solid blue, blue Brindle or blue fawn which is the same as a black masked fawn except the mask is blue instead of black. If you want blue, there are some very important aspects to consider in a breeding program. The selection of the dogs for mating has to be correct. As well as quality of conformation, the colouring also needs to be considered. As in any breeding, including Brindle to Brindle, an incorrect selection of parents may result in pups with weak pigment and light eyes. As the eye colour of blues is affected by the dilution gene, the parents eyes should be as dark as possible. Always include a well pigmented black dog in your breeding program to keep dilution to a minimum. This will also assist in the colour of the nose. In a blue Stafford the nose is a diluted black giving a slate appearance which can vary in colour from grey to black. With the correct breeding program and careful selection, it is possible to produce quality blue Staffords with black noses, medium to dark brown eyes and black toenails. Some of the current blues have darker pigment than some of the Brindle and fawns seen in the show ring.

    The quality of the blue Stafford has improved in the past few years and by using careful selection of quality parents, it will keep on improving. Blue is a colour in the Staffordshire standard but it is the conformation of the dog that matters the most. No one should ever breed for colour alone. Quality always comes first and it should not matter if the animal is red, black, brindle, white, pied or blue. All colors are equal in the standard.
  20. dougs85

    dougs85 New Member

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    Dougs
    i copied the above post from a website what do you guys think of it? i have always wonderd about the blue paul terrier its pretty sad there isnt really much info on it :(
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2012
  21. leadstaffs

    leadstaffs New Member

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    Chris
    I had guessed it was a copy and paste as this is one of those fairy stories that is often told along the lines of pixies and fairies, and we all know they exist right.

    The blue is simply a dilute of the colour black. Although Staffords don't have black the blue pups come from Black Brindles. It is a reccesive dilute gene with affects all pigmentation and any other colour on the dog. Breeding together two dogs with the ressevice dliute gene has been known to bring an increassed insidence of auto immune conditions and colour dilution alopicia. See article below re dobermans but it is the same thing
    http://workinglacys.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/hair-loss-in-blue-lacys/

    Blues were once considered rare as they popped up occasionally in litters. Once they got the rare tag they were the target of people who are breeding primerily for £££££. Because to try and breed litter after litter of blues in my opinion is not doing it to improve the breed.

    When any blues have been born as a one off in a litterthey tend to be decent looking dogs with good construction. Those I have seen born from a breeding for litter tend not to be as good construction or type often with light or yellow eyes. So that with the added possibility of increase health problems I would not go there

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