FAO @Jeff Crook Health

Discussion in 'French Bulldog' started by Malka, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. Malka

    Malka Member

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    FAO @Jeff Crook

    I hope you see this Jeff - I did not want to add it to Gareth's thread so thought it better to give you the information about your boy's litter mate's problems separately.

    It is extremely unlikely that steroids could have triggered either narcolepsy or epilepsy, although the ear infection itself could have been the trigger if there was a predisposition in the first place - and episodes of narcolepsy can be mistaken for very brief epileptic attacks. I have never heard of a puppy having both conditions but both can be possibly linked to an underlying cause/condition, genetic or - as in the case of Pereg, the girl in my avatar who had severe epilepsy, just be idiopathic. Idiopathic as in no known cause.

    But to euthanise a 14 month old puppy with either condition that was "supposedly" triggered by steroids but with no definite diagnosis of either, did not give the puppy a chance. You do not give up at the first sign of trouble - both I and my wonderful vet did everything possible for Pereg and it was only after four diabolical years of uncontrollable epilepsy that we gave her peace. She was six years and three months old.

    However, if the puppy did indeed have narcolepsy or epilepsy, whatever the cause, neither dam not sire should be bred from again, none of the puppies they produced should ever be bred from, not just your boy and his litter mates. Unfortunately French Bulldogs are prone to seizures, so further breeding from lines that carry the condition, must be avoided.

    The following link will give you information regarding narcolepsy:

    and this will give you information regarding epilepsy:

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  3. Jeff Crook

    Jeff Crook New Member

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    Thanks for the information. I didn’t agree with the way the whole situation unfolded as well. The vet was in contact with one of the state University’s vet clinic but I would have needed a physical second opinion that nothing else could be done before putting the pup down.
  4. Malka

    Malka Member

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    I do not know the circumstances Jeff, how old the pup was when the episodes started or how frequent/strong/long-lasting they were - but no-one should just give up on a pup without giving it a chance. Not at just 14 months.

    There is a lot I could say - a lot I would like to say - but I will not because it will not make any difference now. But at least I know that both Ram, my vet, and I did everything possible for my beloved Pereg until she really did need peace.
  5. Jeff Crook

    Jeff Crook New Member

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    He started having issues with the ear infection around the end of November. After that the equilibrium issues started to arise.
  6. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Just out of curiosity, was it the breeders who had kept the puppy for possible show and/or future breeding or was he sold for that purpose? Because there was no definite diagnosis, nor enough time to give any treatment/medication a chance. For a puppy to deteriorate to such an extent in such a short time that he had to be euthanised, does not sound as if he was given much of a chance - just that he was not good enough.
  7. Jeff Crook

    Jeff Crook New Member

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    He was strictly a pet and the owners loved him dearly.
  8. Malka

    Malka Member

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    I am sure they loved him Jeff and I am also sure that it would not have been their choice. I can only think that the pup must have deteriorated extremely quickly and the vet did not have any solutions for him - or for them. What bothered me though was the fact that it all happened very quickly and there was no definite diagnosis. I know that these things can happen but just seems to have been so rushed.

    The pup having been a litter-mate of your boy must be a concern for you though, and I do hope that he and all the other litter-mates will be OK - and that it was just a very sad one-off occurrence.
  9. Jeff Crook

    Jeff Crook New Member

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    We are extremely concerned we use the same vet so we plan on getting as much information as possible from him about what actually occurred. Our female is being spayed on 1/2/20 and he will hopefully provide us with some more information then. I will keep you posted.
  10. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Jeff Crook likes this.
    Hopefully you will get the information you need and that your vet will be able to set your mind at rest. I know I would still worry though. Please do keep me posted, as even though I am not personally involved, the whole situation just seems strange to me.

    Anyhow, I will be thinking of your little girl when she is spayed - mine have always come home the same afternoon, bouncy as ever and with no pain pills either. They never even seemed to be aware that anything had happened, so I hope your girl will be the same.
  11. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    The symptoms sound more like vestibular syndrome to me. I hope your boy will not be affected and you can get a full explanation, but vet confidentiality could be a problem.
  12. Jeff Crook

    Jeff Crook New Member

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    June is home from being spayed. She did good but she’s sore. The vet told us that didn’t officially diagnose anything on our other pups litter mate but I didn’t ever mention that the vet I use the litter mate was going to a different vet until he fell ill so one comment our vet made to us is he never got to see the pup in a healthy state.
  13. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Jeff Crook likes this.
    I am sure you are relieved that your little girl is home OK - did your vet give you any pain medication for her? Please give her a gentle cuddle and ear-twiddle from me. As I said, mine acted as if nothing had happened, and only one [Pereg] needed to wear a cone and that was because she was too interested in her stitches! My vet had used stitches at my request instead of staples so that I could take them out - at that time I did not know how to remove staples.

    Regarding your boys litter mate - it is unfortunate that your vet did not see the pup when he was healthy. Ram, my vet, came round yesterday to give Tikva her three-monthly Parkworm shot, give her a Drontal wormer, clip her nails and left a Bravecto pill for me to give her after her supper, and I asked him whether he thought that steroids could have triggered either narcolepsy or epilepsy and he said he doubted it unless there was an underlying predisposition to either condition. If there was such a predisposition the ear infection could have been the trigger. But obviously without seeing the pup himself, his opinion was only by what he knew about both conditions, and epilepsy is something that he definitely does know about, being epileptic himself.

    In addition, a lot depends on what caused the ear infection in the first place. I once lost a tiny five-week-old Griffon who developed a urinary tract infection which spread to her brain causing meningitis - total paralysis and loss of feeling from her chest down and she died within less than 48 hours from first showing signs of being in pain. The UTI was only diagnosed as being the cause after she had died.

    Regarding your boys litter mate, he was rather shocked that a 14 month-old pup should have deteriorated so much in such a short time that it had to be euthanised. Unless, of course, there was an unknown condition other than epilepsy or narcolepsy. I also asked him whether he thought it could have been vestibular syndrome, as suggested by @CaroleC but he said he doubted it, and in any case that should never be a reason to euthanise a pup.

    Because of his own epilepsy he has studied the subject in detail, has given seminars on the subject to other vets, and taught me a lot about it - which enabled me to accept Pereg as a normal, healthy dog who just happened to be epileptic. I will never forget him telling me that she had epilepsy - I said OK, she is not ill, she is just epileptic, and he laughed and said Juli, I am not ill and I am also epileptic. My immediate comment was "but you drive" and he told me that he had lost his licence in the past but since he had brain surgery he does not have seizures, nor does he have to take any anti-epileptic medication. Which is why I asked him about your boys litter mate.

    So I do not think that you will ever really know exactly what was wrong with the pup, or why, but Ram said exactly what I did, in that whatever the cause was, neither dam nor sire should be used for future breeding, and neither should any of their puppies, because French Bulldogs are prone to seizures so further breeding from lines that carry the condition, must be avoided.

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