Hi all, Although I have a standard Schnauzer (Sam) who is well trained and obedient (ocasionally naughty ).Our neighbour has a Gordon setter who is worryingly on the verge of being out of control. We often have to look after this dog as she is a single mother with two kids and goes 'on the road' with her 'musical career'. The Setter (Hazel) is 2 years and has some typical setter traits as well as some very worrying behaviour: 1) Has no 'sense' of where she is: On leaving cars, our or neigbours property she will run and bound down the street towards anyone who happens to be walking, onto the road, after cats and pretty much wherever she fancies. (My dog Sam will watch baffled as I try to call her back). 2)Is erratic in movement (darts around constantly) and shakes nervously constantly. Her legs and body will literally shake as she stands being petted or hugged or whatever really. 3) Howls and howls, does not understand commands to 'hush' or be quiet. 4)Refuses to walk to heel and refuses to walk calmly on leash. Will nearly choke herself straining at leash despite being calmed or sternly warned. 5) If at open parks or beaches she runs off and I mean off! We literally lost her at a low tide as she decided to go exploring across the harbour bay it took alot of whistling,shouting and deep mud to get her to come back and by then she was wild and would not listen to any calls or commands. I feel so sorry for this dog as her owner is struggling to raise two kids and has chosen a breed that really needs alot fo training and discipline. She is so far from my own Standard Schnauzer who knows right from wrong (most of the time) and knows that running away when called to heel or stay is 'bad' and will result in discipline, hence he rarely gets told off and is a very happy pooch. I am really worried for this dog as from Day one she has displayed some really 'nervous' characteristics, is all over the place and really shows no training and no ability to discerne her surroundings or commands. We are moving house soon and will not be on hand to watch out for her but I am afriad she will get run over, lost or even given away by our neighbour who appears unable to train or understand that her chosen breed needs some serious help and training. I have to admit after having chased her through mud, reclaimed her from neighbourhood escapes, had local animal control complaints associate our dog (because they were in the same Yard when she had a extended 'barking/howling' anxiety session). We have had neighbours threaten the dog because of its constant barking during the day and have had complaints as she jumps at children and passing Mums and toddlers. I have tried to teach her commands and to train her with good/positive rienforcement and even a stern voice when she is not listening. However this dog seems to do whatever she feels like doing be it howling or running about digging up gardens or sitting on furniture. I know she gets no/little discipline whatsoever but this is like no dog I have ever seen! I hate losing my temper however I have lost it a few times with this dog as it has nearly been run over and had my own Dog in the pound as well as keeping the neighbourhood awake and giving us all fleas. I have little experience with this breed however from what I have seen with this setter I would say it has the brain the size of a small pea compared to my schnauzer who is a robust and smart little chap. I would like to hear any suggestions to help as I will pass these onto our neighbour as she needs to take responsibilty as we cannot 'caretake' her animal as beautifull and sweet as she can be she is wild and out of control.
Hello Weegian Hazel sounds like a very typical Gordon to Me! The key with Gordons is PATIENCE and bags of it! They are contrary to belief very clever, but not in a collie way! (hope that makes sense ) They have very long memories and will wait until the time is right to go do something that they are not supposed to! Hazel's owner needs to be consistent with her as she will spot any consistencies and use this to her advantage. Please remember that Gordons were bred to run and run they love to do. They were also bred to work independantly at quite a distance from their handlers on the moors. My old Gordon would not come back until he had had at least one extra lap of the field! You could Shout and yell at him till you were hoarse but he'd come back when he was ready. If she is really struggling, she should contact the breeder and see if they can help. How old is She? I've found that they do settle down around 3 ish (well a little bit ) Hope this helps Jill
Hello Weegian Hazel sounds like a very typical Gordon to Me! The key with Gordons is PATIENCE and bags of it! They are contrary to belief very clever, but not in a collie way! (hope that makes sense ) They have very long memories and will wait until the time is right to go do something that they are not supposed to! Hazel's owner needs to be consistent with her as she will spot any consistencies and use this to her advantage. Please remember that Gordons were bred to run and run they love to do. They were also bred to work independantly at quite a distance from their handlers on the moors. My old Gordon would not come back until he had had at least one extra lap of the field! You could Shout and yell at him till you were hoarse but he'd come back when he was ready. See if you can find somewhere safe and secure without the risk of traffic where she can be exercised. Even my current boy, who is soo laid back he's almost horizontal, will go into a neighbouring field through the hedgerow because he can and he knows he shouldn't If she is really struggling, try and get her to contact the breeder and see if they can help. How old is She? I've found that they do settle down around 3 ish (well a little bit ) Hope this helps I'm sure Rachel will be along soon as well Jill
Hi - Jill has already posted some good info and here's my twopenneth! Sorry its a bit long and have tried to help as much as I can. Hi all, Although I have a standard Schnauzer (Sam) who is well trained and obedient (ocasionally naughty ).Our neighbour has a Gordon setter who is worryingly on the verge of being out of control. We often have to look after this dog as she is a single mother with two kids and goes 'on the road' with her 'musical career'. The Setter (Hazel) is 2 years and has some typical setter traits as well as some very worrying behaviour: Just because she is a setter doesn’t mean she is untrainable – as Jill has said setters need consistent training – and are actually very smart dogs – she has learnt what she can get away with by the sounds of it - give them an inch they will take a mile! The need a reasonably firm but fair hand – not too harsh but strong and fair – they never forget so be careful if harsh as it will take a long time to win the trust back. It sounds like she hasn’t really received any sort of training and probably needs to be treated like a new puppy taking everything right back to basics? I have found clicker training a godsend with my unruly boy he is incredibly smart but will so try it on!1) Has no 'sense' of where she is: On leaving cars, our or neigbours property she will run and bound down the street towards anyone who happens to be walking, onto the road, after cats and pretty much wherever she fancies. (My dog Sam will watch baffled as I try to call her back). Can she have a lead on her to avoid this? Setters are such socialites and most dogs do not know road sense automatically in fact – probably never do so unless you have a stick to glue to you type dog this probably is common? Recall – has she really been taught this? Does she know what you want – by now she probably has learnt to ignore her name anyway so may need to start again – a whistle can be used instead which again start from scratch like a puppy and even whistle feed so that the whistle is a great thing to come back for – if you want more advice on this let me know. Can she be let off in a safe place to free run? If not I would suggest a long line – but yes setters do like to run and run and not always near their owners and you will only ever get a reasonable recall not perfect like a lot of other dogs! 2)Is erratic in movement (darts around constantly) and shakes nervously constantly. Her legs and body will literally shake as she stands being petted or hugged or whatever really. She sounds very insecure to me? And perhaps even bored / unsure of her space? With the training you may find that this becomes less once she understands what is expected from her? 3) Howls and howls, does not understand commands to 'hush' or be quiet. This is a Gordon trait I’m afraid but with the other training she may do this less – diverting attention might work here – or something to chew on relieve tension. 4)Refuses to walk to heel and refuses to walk calmly on leash. Will nearly choke herself straining at leash despite being calmed or sternly warned. Again this comes down to training – the clicker will be great here (if you need help on clicker training then let me know) Gordons are not stupid but they do need to be shown what you want like any dog – no dog KNOWS walking to heel they need to be shown what they want. 5) If at open parks or beaches she runs off and I mean off! We literally lost her at a low tide as she decided to go exploring across the harbour bay it took alot of whistling,shouting and deep mud to get her to come back and by then she was wild and would not listen to any calls or commands. Again training and I would not allow her this sort of freedom until you are sure she knows what recall is – which this girl doesn’t seem to.I feel so sorry for this dog as her owner is struggling to raise two kids and has chosen a breed that really needs alot fo training and discipline. All dogs need training – setters don’t actually need A LOT and they just need consistent training – which sounds to me like she hasn’t had any training let alone consistent. Setters like a good bit of exercise and mental stimulation but they are usually quite happy to crash out at home – my thoughts are that she is from working lines? So may need slightly more work most Gordons but definitely should be achievable – if not perhaps she needs to speak to the breeder like Jill suggested for help. She is so far from my own Standard Schnauzer who knows right from wrong (most of the time) and knows that running away when called to heel or stay is 'bad' and will result in discipline, hence he rarely gets told off and is a very happy pooch. Some dogs are just easier than others but with the right approach most dogs are trainable.I am really worried for this dog as from Day one she has displayed some really 'nervous' characteristics, is all over the place and really shows no training and no ability to discerne her surroundings or commands. We are moving house soon and will not be on hand to watch out for her but I am afriad she will get run over, lost or even given away by our neighbour who appears unable to train or understand that her chosen breed needs some serious help and training. I have to admit after having chased her through mud, reclaimed her from neighbourhood escapes, had local animal control complaints associate our dog (because they were in the same Yard when she had a extended 'barking/howling' anxiety session). We have had neighbours threaten the dog because of its constant barking during the day and have had complaints as she jumps at children and passing Mums and toddlers. I have tried to teach her commands and to train her with good/positive rienforcement and even a stern voice when she is not listening. However this dog seems to do whatever she feels like doing be it howling or running about digging up gardens or sitting on furniture. I know she gets no/little discipline whatsoever but this is like no dog I have ever seen! I hate losing my temper however I have lost it a few times with this dog as it has nearly been run over and had my own Dog in the pound as well as keeping the neighbourhood awake and giving us all fleas. I have little experience with this breed however from what I have seen with this setter I would say it has the brain the size of a small pea compared to my schnauzer who is a robust and smart little chap. I would like to hear any suggestions to help as I will pass these onto our neighbour as she needs to take responsibilty as we cannot 'caretake' her animal as beautifull and sweet as she can be she is wild and out of control. Brain the size of a pea – disagree on this they are very clever – here is the link to the BGSC site and GSA (UK sites I know) but hopefully you will see they aren’t stupid as people think! I truly believe this is down to training and not meeting her needs – if she is not safe then she should not be lose and free. NO matter how hard it will be – she needs to learn what is expected – discipline is not the answer training is – its no good you doing all this work and her owner then not bothering – the dog then doesn’t know what to expect. I think the owner needs to seek advice from either a trainer or her breeder to help – it might be that this poor girl needs to go to a more experienced home where her needs can be truly met. I really feel sorry for her and think what you are trying to do is great but her owner really needs to sort this out – esp. if you are moving. Sounds like you put the effort in with your boy and you have a well behaved dog whom you love dearly. I would hope this girl could be giving the time and effort too Hope I haven’t rambled but owning this fabulous breed just had to ‘stick up’ for them! I don’t think her behavior is necessarily just because she is a setter – she is an untrained dog! Hope this girl gets what she needs Rachel x http://www.britishgordonsetterclub.co.uk http://www.gordonsetterassociation.co.uk http://www.clickersolutions.com
