HEART STICK. ici . @#@!!# General Chat

Discussion in 'General Dog Chat' started by Reillymolly, Jan 19, 2024.

  1. Reillymolly

    Reillymolly New Member

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    HEART STICK. ici . @#@!!#

    One of my fur baby's was euthanized by
    Ici ( intracardiac injection) HEART STICK
    in November .I Never heard of this procedure before until I was sent this video last Friday, I'm horrified, after doing more research this ici heart stick sounds terrible if done wrong or on a conscious animal anyone else see this or know about HEART STICK Happening on CONSCIOUS ANIMALS???!@!#!!?
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  3. Reillymolly

    Reillymolly New Member

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  4. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Toedtoes likes this.
    I have had a dog pts by this method. He was in advanced kidney failure and became comatose. The vet said that he would have a kind death but I couldn't keep walking past his comatose body and insisted that she put him to sleep.
    Of course he had no bp. I applied pressure to his leg, then the vet tried a tourniquet, but we couldn't raise a vein. She asked me to continue talking to him, and carefully administered the drug directly into his heart. My memory is that he didn't flinch, but this was 1996, I really hope that I didn't let him down. This was the most loving, and most successful dog of my lifetime, so this reply hasn't come easily. I would rather remember our glory days and his love and loyalty.

    Remembering Geordie, CKCS. 1983 - 1996.
    Photo wouldn't load.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2024
  5. Toedtoes

    Toedtoes Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    As far as I know,in most cases, this procedure is done when the animal is comatose and there is no way to access a vein, etc.

    In all my years, I have never had this done to any of my animals.

    I would suspect that no reputable vet would use this as a standard procedure for euthanasia, but may use it under certain circumstances, such as with @CaroleC's Geordie.

    As standard euthanasia injections are easy to administer in most cses, I do not see this somehow becoming a popular substitute. And as many pets will become comatose during ongoing veterinary care, they will usually have a port, so it is much easier to administer the meds via the port, than to inject the heart directly.

    As for the OP, I am curious. How is it that you did not know of this procedure until two months after it was used on your dog, yet you know your dog had this done to him?

    And why post the link to this particular link three times?

    Are you looking for information? Or are you advertising?
  6. Reillymolly

    Reillymolly New Member

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    Hi I'm Actually living in Japan since October and was only told be one of my family members that our max was euthanized by ici recently it was then I researched ici and was sent this video about ici ( Heart stick ) ,am just trying to educate myself on it as i never heard of this on a animal, as for putting it up 3 times I'm only new to group and wasn't sure it was going up on the site till a admin sent me a message ,but thanks for your reply
  7. Reillymolly

    Reillymolly New Member

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    CaroleC and Helidale like this.
    Sorry for your loss sounds like you really loved your Geordie
  8. Toedtoes

    Toedtoes Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. We tend to get a lot of advertisements, so when multiple links appear suddenly, it tiggers the question.

    I honestly would not put much stock into a video posted on facebook. They tend to manipulate the facts.

    I would suggest contacting the vet who did the procedure and ask why they chose to euthanize in that manner. There may have been a specific reason for doing so. Or you may find out they didn't actually use that procedure.

    Truth be told, I do not see giving an injection straight to the heart to be something done unless necessary. The person has to get close to the chest - which means being within reach of the dog's muzzle. They would have to push the needle in a long way to get through the ribcage and into the heart - all without scaring/upsetting/hurting the dog to avoid being bit.

    An injection in the leg is 1000 times easier.

    All reports I've seen of it being done have been at city/county shelters. And it has been been banned in some states.
  9. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Before the Beagles I had a Lurcher, Mia, who had been found one freezing January, collapsed by the side of a major trunk road. I didn't know her age but she never was a vigorous girl. Later in life she started to have fainting episodes, which turned out to be fluid in her pericardium. This would build up until it caused pressure on the heart muscle. She had to have her pericardium drained three times, but when the last two were only 7 days apart we decided to have her euthanised, (by the normal method).
    The times she had her pericardium drained I wasn't present but believed that it was quite quick and was done under light/brief? sedation. We would take our other dog for a walk and collect her on our home. I'm now wondering how stressful this was for her - although the needle was going into the heart sac, not the heart muscle. Of course we were gentle with her, but she never looked like a dog that had been under an anaesthetic.
  10. Toedtoes

    Toedtoes Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    Pericardiocentesis in humans is done with just a local anesthetic. It's more similar to an aspirate than ICI as it just goes into a sac of fluid not into an actual muscle. A bad practitioner could insert it incorrectly and hit a muscle around the rib cage, but I wouldn't think that likely.

    Needles in muscles are difficult in general because the muscle will try to seize around the needle. So you get the discomfort of the needle plus a charlie horse type pain that lasts long after the needle is gone. Going into the heart muscle would be significantly worse.

    Cortisone shots in the knee or shoulder will often go through a muscle to get into the actual joint. So if you've ever had that done, you are likely familiar with that sensation in general.
  11. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Thanks for that Toed. Do you have a nursing background?
  12. Toedtoes

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    CaroleC likes this.
    My sibling is/was a heart nurse.
  13. Reillymolly

    Reillymolly New Member

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  14. Helidale

    Helidale Member

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    Toedtoes likes this.
    The Greyhound industry is disgusting, full stop! I would like to see it banned. The government petition received over 104k signatures, but parliament decided that the industry ware taking action to address welfare concerns.
    Several years ago in the UK, there was a man in the N.E. area who would shoot racing dogs that were no longer wanted by their owners. Over a hundred carcasses were said to have been found on his land.

    I am CaroleC btw. just using alternative media.
  15. Toedtoes

    Toedtoes Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    I agree with @CaroleC - the greyhound industry is disgusting in many ways.

    Also, as I mentioned above, I have only seen reports of "widespread" use of this procedure at individual shelters. And in those cases, like the greyhound industry, there is a much deeper problem of ethical treatment being provided by those shelters.

    In other words, only a shelter that is already mistreating animals in their care would use ICI as a standard practice.

    And in those cases, the shelter already needs a complete overhaul in management and practices. The use of ICI is just one symptom of a total systemic problem.

    So, rather than getting too bogged down over one procedure, I think we need to demand and require ethical and humane treatment for animals in ALL aspects of their lives.

    As long as we accept the use of cruel methods in the daily lives of our "beloved pets" (ie, shock and prong collars, neglect, physical punishments, etc), how can we expect the humane treatment towards the unwanted pets?

    In the case of a veterinary practice using ICI on a regular basis, it would again be symptomatic of a much bigger problem. A vet who would choose to use ICI, unless absolutely necessary, would not be a vet who cared about their patients. And you would see that reflected in their daily behavior towards the animals in their care.

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