"Irish" staffords - should they have a change of name? Discussions

i cant remember if it was on this board but i also heard the fella who claimed to have come up with the term irish staffy crossed his with ebt's dont know how true this is but sure someone will put me straight

well Archer thats my opinion i will check when i get back am going out to work

Not ignoring your question Pete I will be back shortly.

im off too ring craft so wont be on till later

irish "staffs" must have staffy blood lines some where or they wouldn't be called staffs.....(in my opion i'm not saying i'm right i could be wrong on this.....)
i have an irish staffy + i think if the name "irish staffy" was to be changed alot of people would get cofused cos i no i would.

my friend had an english staffy and it was kc reg and she delved back in to it's blood lines and he had irish lines and also it's great great great great great grand parents were inter bread....
so was this dog irish, inter bread or both? or could it be classed as a full kc reg staffy? :smt017 can some 1 explain?

dance with the Divil is my Jazz's grandsire (thought i recognised him )

"I dont have a problem with true staffords being called staffords either reg or non reg but i do have a problem with mixed bloods being called staffords and by that i mean any dog with EBT in it or Wheaten terrier in its history (this is one dog a lot of ISBT owners dont even know was used in some strains too) in fact if any alien blood has been used at all they should not be called staffords because they are crossbreeds"................minty


Couldn't agree more, as i have mentioned before they are not "just staffords bred from irish lines", as some people would have you believe, but a combination of bull terriers, i.e. E.B.T, Staffordshire and APBT in some lines also. Didn't know about the Wheaten, very interesting as they (Irish Staffs) are bull terriers after all. I have asked this before, and had no answer, so I'll ask it again "IF I GET A STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIER AND CROSS IT WITH AN ENGLISH BULL TERRIER, DO I THEN HAVE A FIRST GENERATION IRISH STAFF, AS CH. STORMER WAS?" If this is the case, then I find it absurd that a straight cross between two different breeds can be claimed to be "just a stafford bred from irish lines". They are great fit game dogs, but the main reason they do not look like KC Staffords is because they are crossbreeds of one form or another, simple as that, sorry if i offend anyone, but the truth is the truth!
Thank you

BTW I think they should just be called Bull Terriers

if they were just called bull terrier people would probably get the mixed up with EBTs though

when people are cross breeding them and calling them irish staffordshire bull terriers people might get them mixed up with staffordshire bull terriers .

At the end of the day is it really important in the grand scheme of things If people want to call their dogs Bull & Terriers fine if they want to call them Staffords fine if they want to call them English Irish Scottish or Welsh Bull Terriers fine what people do with their dogs or chose to call them is their business and nobody will change what they think.

To be honest I don't care what they call them as long as they're honest and if people buy a cross bred pup they don't try to pass it off as a pedigree

I like you am trying to understand the whole issue of type when it comes to the stafford breed.I have spent the last 3 years trying to find out and researching the history of the stafford and other similar breeds.This came about because of peoples comments and reactions to my dog a 3 year old stafford who i bought when he was 11 weeks old with no pedigree and not kc registered.
Comments like is he a pedigree? Is he pure breed? Is he a pitbull? Hes got the head of a staff and the body of a pitbull. As you can imagine comments like these raised questions even though they were made before he had fully matured.I had no knowledge of his bloodline which did not help.
I have come to the conclusion that comments like these were made because of peoples misconceptions of what a stafford should be.
Just because a stafford doesnt fit a breed standard perfectly does not mean he is any less of a staff.
I would say my dog is slightly taller than the breed standard but this doesnt make him an american pitbull.I think it is important for people to realise that alot of breeds have variations in type,the rottweiler and the American bulldog are two who have a working strain and a strain breed for conformation.This is true of the american pitbull as well the american stafford is breed more for conformation and the american pitbull is generally more game breed although some people register there dogs under both names.I may be wrong but this kind of reflects the situation we have today in Britain with the irish and english staffs although i cant see the kennel club ever registering an irish staff as a staff bull terrier.
I think it is important to point out that the breed standard has changed twice since it was origionally published i believe once in the 60s and once in the 80s in the first standard the height and weight guides were similar what the american pitbull standard is now .There are also kc breeders out there who are breeding there dogs to have old tyme qualitys and charicteristics eg longer legs and longer muzzles but these are still kcstaffs.
If someone breeds 2 kc reg staffys who are both taller than adverage but does not register the puppies with the kennel club does this mean this offspring are not staffordshirebull terriers?
I believe that the irish staff is basically a reflection of what the stafford origionally was before it evolved into the short stocky show type of today so i believe these types of dog are actually truer to what a stafford should be.Therfore i think it is right to use the name stafford to describe these dogs because that is what they are.
I know lots of dog owners who have non kc dogs and most are good examples of there breeds and have good temprements.My Buster included.
I hope this has given you a different veiw point on the whole issue.

Sorry forgot to mention the above is a reply to Petes comments.

Totally new to this nevermind somone might read it.
Enjoyed writing it though.
What does global moderater mean?

Now this is an interesting debate. I've often wondered about Shadow my KC Registered Staffordshire Bull Terrier. She has 12 Champions in her lines, but I have yet to find one person who actually knew what breed she was without asking me. Everyone seems to think she is a cross breed, when I tell them shes a KC registed staff they respond with "but shes too tall to be a staff".

Is it true that the old lines where bred for longer legs and muzzles?

I think that Irish Staffies should be left as "irsih Staffies", are they a registered breed in Ireland?

A pic of shadow is enclosed so you can see what a I mean about her muzzle and legs, much longer than the average staff. It would be nice to be able to say to people, that these are from the orginal breeding style.

Sorry i've come in at the tail end of this (no pun intended ) i never realised there was two types of staffs to me they like most breeds differ slightly no two being exactly alike , but all have what seem huge ego and really beaming smiles , is the only difference in the height ?

This debate could and has gone on forever.So I just thought I`d chip in. Irish Staffies ARE staffies, just the traditional type. Just like Setters, spaniels, bulldogs, german shepards, in fact a lot of working type of dogs, there are differences between the show TYPE and the working TYPE. Its still the same breed though.
Please don`t get confused with Irish staffies, old time staffs, leggy staffs and cross breeds. Cross breeds are just that, and it is reflected in their pedigree/ lines etc.
It is possible to receate the look of a type of dog by crossing various breeds. Lets face it, its by crossing different breeds years ago that created the dogs we love today, and its still going on with ladradoodles etc.
These dogs should then be advertised as what they are.
If you talk to KC Staffy owners they will tell you that the breed is regulary producing taller dogs in its litters, its just that this is classsed as a SHOWING! fault. It doesn`t mean its a bad dog! This happens with all things that are shown, they very rarely end up in the show ring looking like what they were created for, look at Budgies, Rabbits, Cats even some plants. It comes down to the powerful people on each associations commitee deciding on what an ideal looks like. This can and does change as time goes by.
Being registered with any association doesn`t make any dog any better than another. There are numerous great breeds and types out there that aren`t registered/ recognised, maybe they will in the future, but you can be sure that each owners thinks that theirs is the best.
What we sould all be doing especially if we have a dog that LOOKS like any of the banned breeds TYPE! is stick together and try to stop the stupid pathetic knee jerk legislation that could ruin the relationship that ANY of us have with our dogs.
Punish the deed, not the breed!.....:? :?

but what kind of "work" do they do? :? i thought irish staff was code for pitbull because they are illegal now so people cant go round saying they have pits so they say they have irish staffs instead