NI breeding ethics Controversial

Discussion in 'Northern Inuit Dog' started by kcjack, Jul 18, 2008.

  1. PrincessPooch

    PrincessPooch New Member

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    Name:
    Hannah
    A few things I don't agree with on the code of ethics for the NIS. Breeding a bitch as young as 14 months, no more than SIX litters?! I think six litters from a bitch is disgusting personally.
    Am I overlooking rules regarding health tests? Should they not be mandatory? Or at the very least encouraged?

    Obviously I'm not a professional, but thought I'd give an opinion.
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  3. Heather and Zak

    Heather and Zak New Member

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    heather
    No more than SIX litters?? All I can say is poor bitches, that's practically a litter a year, who the hell can say that is ethical. It's not ethical it's disgusting.:evil: They would be nothing more than money making machines.
  4. Greyhawk

    Greyhawk New Member

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    Unfortunately this is also the KC's stance - they will refuse to register a litter if the bitch has already had 6 previous (registered :evil: ) litters but up to 6 is classed as fine :-(
  5. Lionhound

    Lionhound

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    Lorna
    I also though that the number of litters were dependant on how many puppies a bitch whelped.
    I don't know what an average litter size would be in NIDs?
  6. Heather and Zak

    Heather and Zak New Member

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    heather
    Thank you Greyhawk I didn't realize that. Well thats all I can say is the KC needs a kick up the backside as well. Where is their mentality? Once again I say poor bitches, they don't deserve to be used like that.
  7. kcjack

    kcjack New Member

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    Julia
    They should all change there mottos to "old enough to bleed, old enough to breed "
  8. Wolfie

    Wolfie New Member

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    Name:
    Corrie
    I do hope that applies to KC registered breed too.

    As I've said, I will breed from my bitch every two years and no more than three litters, then my girl will be spayed and will remain a member of my family for her lifetime.
  9. Razcox

    Razcox New Member

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    Rachel
    Just to compare this is the breeding code of ethics for the KC for breeders to be reg with them . . .

    1. Owners will properly house, feed, water and exercise all dogs under their care and arrange for appropriate veterinary attention if and when required.

    2. Owners will not allow any of their dogs to roam at large or to cause a nuisance to neighbours or those carrying out official duties.

    3.Owners will ensure that their dogs will wear properly tagged collars and shall be kept fully leashed or under effective control when away from home.

    4. Owners will clean up after their dogs in public places or anywhere where they compete with their dogs.

    5. Owners will agree without reservation that any veterinary surgeon performing an operation on any of their dogs which alters the natural conformation of the animal, may report such operation to the Kennel Club.

    6. Owners agree not to breed from a bitch in any way which is deleterious to the bitch or breed.

    7. Owners agree only to sell dogs where there is a reasonable expectation of a happy and healthy life and will help with the re-homing of a dog if the initial circumstances change.

    7. Owners will supply written details of all dietary requirements and give guidance concerning responsible ownership when placing dogs in a new home.

    8. Owners will not sell any dog to commercial dog wholesalers, retail pet dealers or directly or indirectly allow dogs to be given as a prize or donation in a competition of any kind.

    10. Owners will not knowingly misrepresent the characteristics of the breed nor falsely advertise dogs or mislead any person regarding the quality of a dog.

    11. Owners will ensure that all relevant Kennel Club documents are provided to the new owner when selling or transferring a dog. The owner will agree, in writing, to forward any relevant documents at the earliest opportunity, if not immediately available.
  10. Razcox

    Razcox New Member

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    Rachel
    And for the border terrier club . . .


    Generally
    1. Members will properly house, feed, water and exercise all dogs under their care and arrange for appropriate veterinary attention if and when required

    2. Members will not allow any of their dogs to roam at large or to cause a nuisance to neighbours or those carrying out official duties.

    3. Members will ensure that their dogs shall wear properly tagged collars and shall be kept fully leashed or under effective control when away from home.

    4. Members will clean up after their dogs in public places or anywhere their dogs are being exhibited.

    5. Members will agree without reservation that any Veterinary Surgeon operating on any of their dogs, which operation alters the natural conformation of the animal, may report such operation to the Kennel Club.

    Breeding
    Members should be aware that it is not necessarily beneficial to her well being for a bitch to produce a litter and in some circumstances, may be deleterious to her health. Contrary to popular belief, if she has had false pregnancies, breeding from her will not cure that for the future.

    1 Members will agree not to knowingly breed from a bitch, which in any way is deleterious to the bitch or the breed. It is recommended that only animals that are healthy, of good temperament and free from known inheritable defects should be bred from.

    2 It is recommended that Breeders do not breed from a bitch on consecutive seasons. A bitch under 12 months old and over 8 years old must not be bred from.

    3 Stud dog owners shall give the bitch owner an accurately completed Kennel Club form at the time of mating. If no puppies result from the mating a free repeat mating at a later date may be given at the discretion of the stud dog owner. The stud fee is paid for the stud service, not for the resulting puppies. Decisions about Stud services should be mutually agreed between stud dog owner and the brood bitch owner, preferably in writing.

    4 Members should not mate a bitch to more than one stud dog during a single heat period. If a misalliance occurs and the sire of the puppies is inconclusive, DNA testing of all resultant progeny and the prospective sires and the dam is recommended, in order to verify the parentage of the puppies before registration at the Kennel Club.

    5 Stud dog owners should satisfy themselves that the owner of the bitch is fully aware of the contents of this Code of Ethics and intends to comply with this Code, before accepting a bitch for mating to their dog. The stud dog owner should ensure that the owner of the bitch has a copy of this Code of Ethics and that they intend to pass it on to the buyers of the resultant puppies.

    6 Members who breed a litter should ensure they have the time and resources to rear the litter correctly, making sure they are well fed, housed and socialised before leaving for their new homes, also ensuring that they are free from parasites such as worms and fleas. Regular worming should be carried out with the appropriate brand of wormer, usually two or three times before the puppies leave their breeder if leaving around 8 weeks and advice should be given to the new owner on worming and other preparations necessary to keep them free from parasites.

    Sale & Placement
    1 It is advisable that puppies should not normally leave for their new homes until around 8 weeks of age (when, if advised by the breeder’s veterinary surgeon, they may already have had their 1st injection). On no account should puppies leave the breeder’s premises before they are 7 weeks old.

    2 Members agree only to sell puppies and older dogs to homes where the prospective owner can provide a reasonable expectation of a happy and healthy life and will take back or help with the re-homing of a dog if the initial circumstances change.

    3 Breeders should consider obtaining a Health Certificate for each puppy or adult, from their own veterinary surgeon, before the puppy or adult is offered to a new home.

    4 Members will provide written details of all dietary requirements and give guidance concerning responsible ownership when placing dogs in a new home. In addition, it is recommended that the breeder give a small supply of the food being used when parting with the puppy. It is recommended that advice be given not to change the puppies diet for a considerable length of time, as a dietary change in the early days in a new home may upset the digestive system of the puppy.

    5 Members should take great care when they sell their puppies and no puppy should be sold knowingly to commercial dog wholesalers or retail pet dealers. Members should not, either directly or indirectly, allow dogs to be given as a prize or donation, in a competition of any kind.

    6 Members will not knowingly misrepresent the characteristics of the breed nor falsely advertise dogs or mislead any person regarding the quality of the dog.

    7 Members will ensure that the Kennel Club Registration certificate is provided to the new owner when selling or transferring a registered puppy. If the Kennel Club registration papers are not available when the puppy leaves home, the breeder should ensure that information is given to the new owners, including the Kennel Club names and registration numbers of the sire and dam, the date the application form for the registration was or will be forwarded to the Kennel Club and a pedigree showing the extended family of the puppy, for example a 3 or 5 generation pedigree certificate signed by the breeder. Breeders should also give puppy purchasers a copy of this Code of Ethics.

    8 If for whatever reason, a puppy is being sold without Kennel Club Registration papers, this should be made apparent to the new owners when the puppy goes to it’s new home, preferably in writing, and the purchaser should be advised of the reason/s for withholding the registration papers.

    9 Members should impress upon buyers that they should contact the breeder in the event of a problem with their Border Terrier and should make a genuine effort to be of assistance to buyers if a problem arises.

    10 Members should ensure when people visit to see the puppies, that they are shown the dam with the puppies.

    11 Members should screen prospective owners and advise them of the characteristics of the Border Terrier.

    12 In this document, all references to puppies should also be taken, where appropriate, to apply to any adult dogs which are sold or rehomed.
  11. Greyhawk

    Greyhawk New Member

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    Why did you choose the Border Terrier club to compare you CofE to? They are a much smaller breed and it is generally accepted that smaller breeds mature faster and often breeders do breed from smaller dogs at a younger age than is acceptable for a larger breed. As your breed is a slow maturing one, they really shouldn't be bred from until they are 2 years old - the Mal Clubs CofE would have been a better one to compare yours to (although even that could be improved).

    I see the Border Terrier club do mention health testing though :)

    It is recommended that only animals that are healthy, of good temperament and free from known inheritable defects should be bred from.
  12. Greyhawk

    Greyhawk New Member

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    Oh I know, the vast majority don't agree with it but that is the regulations as they stand at the moment. We had one poor bitch in a recent BRS who was on her 6th registered litter (and it is possible that she may have had unregistered ones too :( ).

    So sad :(


    I assumed this comment was aimed at the KC's general CofE?
  13. Razcox

    Razcox New Member

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    Rachel
    I included one that came up in a quick search on code of ethics i was meant to be working :mrgreen: .

    Will try and find a large breed one in my lunch break.
  14. kcjack

    kcjack New Member

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    Julia
    My quote was aimed at anyone who feels its ok to breed a bitch 6 times. And never been a fan of kennel club all about money not the dogs.
  15. inkliveeva

    inkliveeva New Member

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    Elaine
    What would outward signs of over breeding a bitch be ?
  16. Greyhawk

    Greyhawk New Member

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    Honestly, allowing a small, insignificant thing such as work to get in the way of you surfing the internet :mrgreen:
  17. Sal

    Sal New Member

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    sally
    We have 18 breed clubs all with code of ethics similar to what can be seen on this link http://www.psbtc.org.uk/index.php?page=code_of_ethics

    I think 3 litters is ample for any bitch regardless of it's breed,again I think breeding from any bitch at 12 months regardless of breed is unacceptable.
  18. Borderdawn

    Borderdawn New Member

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    Dawn
    It does GH, yet there are no recommended health tests to do! More and more are checking patellas, and investigation is underway into juvenile cataracts, so many are testing for that too, especially the older ones just to guage a wider knowledge of a possible problem.
  19. Louise13

    Louise13 New Member

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    Louise
    I think the saddest indicator of an overbred bitch is sagging of the "undercarriage"..

    Such as the cases seen on Many Tears from puppy farmers
  20. Razcox

    Razcox New Member

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    Rachel
    Here is the TIDA code . . .

    Breeders will properly house, feed, water and exercise all dogs under their care and arrange appropriate veterinary attention if and when required

    Breeders will agree without reservation not to perform an operation that alters the natural conformation of any dog.

    Breeders will not breed from a bitch in any way that is deleterious to the bitch or the breed.

    Breeders will only breed from recommended and approved dogs and bitches.

    A bitch cannot be mated under 14 months of age.

    A bitch cannot whelp twice in a 12-month period.

    A bitch cannot whelp more than six litters.

    A bitch cannot whelp after 8 years of age.

    All breeding bitches should be positively identified (microchip or tattoo and genetic profile).

    Breeders agree only to sell dogs where there is reasonable expectation of a happy and healthy life and will accept a dog back or help with re-homing if the initial circumstances change.

    Breeders will supply written details of all dietary requirements and give guidance concerning responsible ownership and training when placing dogs in a new home.Breeders will offer ‘after sale’ advice on the telephone to new owners.

    Breeders will not sell any dog to commercial dog wholesalers, retails pet dealers or directly or indirectly allow dogs to be given as a prize or donation in a competition of any kind.

    Breeders will not knowingly misrepresent the characteristics of the breed nor falsely advertise dogs nor mislead any person regarding the quality of the dog.
  21. Razcox

    Razcox New Member

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    Rachel
    Very impressed with the Mal one which seems to go a bit further then the KC one . . .

    CODE OF ETHICS

    BREED STANDARD All breeding stock should closely follow the official Kennel Club Standard in all aspects, with particular attention being paid to temperament of the dogs. Dogs, which manifestly depart from the Breed Standard, are not suitable for breeding.

    BREEDING PURPOSES All breeding should include the objective of improving the overall standard of Malamutes. Equal weight should be given to type, temperament, health and soundness. Nervous or aggressive dogs are not satisfactory as breeding stock or pets.

    REGISTRATION All dogs used for breeding should be registered with the Kennel Club and full details of their pedigree should be known.

    PLANNING OF LITTERS No one should breed a litter unless he/she has the right facilities for dam and litter, and the time to devote proper care and attention to rearing the puppies and the well being of the dam. There should be some demand for the puppies before the bitches are mated.

    BREEDING AGE Bitches should not be mated before her second birthday and not before the third season. They must whelp for the first time before their 6th birthday.

    WELFARE OF THE BITCH No bitch shall be bred to twice within a 12 month period. Bitches should not have litters on consecutive seasons. No bitch should have more than 4 litters and must not whelp after her 8th birthday unless KC permission is granted.

    STUD DOGS Only entire dogs with two fully descended testicles should be used at stud and not before eighteen months of age. Members who own stud dogs should be aware of the need to improve the breed and enhance the reputation of the sires. They should refuse stud services to inferior specimens of the breed and to owners who have neither the time nor the facilities to rear litters.

    PUPPY SALES Prospective buyers of puppies should be screened for suitability and ability to provide long term homes. They should be advised of the characteristics and problems of the breed. These include the need for grooming, exercise, family contact and the need to socialize as soon as possible, as the breed has a tendency to dislike other dogs.

    PUPPY INFORMATION No puppy should leave the breeder before 7 weeks of age. Each purchaser of a Malamute puppy should be provided, at the time of sale, with an accurate pedigree, a Kennel Club transfer form and a registration certificate. He/she should also receive a diet sheet and information about training, worming and vaccination. Advice should be given about suitable books and membership of the breed club

    PUPPY VARIATIONS No puppy, which has a physical defect or shows a clear departure from the Standard, should be sold without the buyer being made fully aware of the defect or departure from the Standard. Breeders should replace any puppy, which develops a defect to such a degree, that, on the advice of two independent veterinary surgeons, the puppy has to be put down, or they should refund the purchase price. The breeder is to be properly notified before any such action is taken. It is advisable for breeders to take out insurance cover on any puppy they breed, for the first six weeks in its new home.

    UNWELCOME SALES No Malamute should knowingly be sold to laboratories, pet shops or dealers in dogs, or to persons known to sell puppies to any of the above. Owners of stud dogs should not provide stud services for such persons. No puppy should be sold or offered as a prize in any raffle or competition. No puppies should be sold to countries where anti-cruelty laws do not protect them, and/or where there are known social and ownership problems with dogs.

    AFTER SALES It should be impressed on buyers, that they should contact the breeder in the event of problems with puppies. Breeders should make every effort to assist in these circumstances. Breeders should be prepared to take puppies back and rehome, if it becomes necessary. They should co-operate with the Breed Rescue.

    HEREDITARY DEFECTS Breeders should not knowingly breed from any stock that has known and proven hereditary diseases. It is advised that all breeding stock be x-rayed for hip dysplasia and eyes tested after the age of twelve months for hereditary cataracts by a qualified veterinary surgeon. It is strongly advised that all x-ray plates are submitted to the B.V.A. for scoring, even if the hips are poor, so that a true picture of H.D. in the breed can be assessed.

    ADVERTISING Advertisements for stock should always be honest, factual and without exaggeration or distortion.

    CONDUCT Officers and Committee of the Breed Club are always ready to help with members' problems, whenever possible. Members should conduct themselves at all times to reflect credit on the ownership of dogs. Members should not allow dogs to roam and cause a nuisance to other people. They should accept responsibility for cleaning up after their dogs in public places

    IMHO this is what both the KC and all breed clubs should be moving to . . .

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