Odd Behaviour, Advice needed. Questions

Discussion in 'Border Terrier' started by Deana, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Deana

    Deana New Member

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    Odd Behaviour, Advice needed.

    Suddenly our Border Terrier has started drinking all her water in one go, urinating in the house and frequently licking front legs. A vet visit and tests revealed nothing wrong any ideas? She has been our pet for 5 years and has not done this before. Any advice would be great. We haven't ruled out cushings but the vet has told us it is very unlikely.
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  3. 6JRT's

    6JRT's Member

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    Have your vets done a diabetic blood test.
  4. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Were your dog's samples sent to an external laboratory, or were they tested 'in house'? Did you have blood and urine tested, or just urine? There are too many possibilities to offer suggestions, I think I would follow up with a further vet visit.

    A site I have found useful in understanding my own dogs biochemistry readings is,
    http://2ndchance.info/normaldogandcatbloodvalues.htm (does cover urine too)
    Lots of hypertext links.
  5. Deana

    Deana New Member

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    Hi, thank you for taking the time to respond. Yes a series of blood tests have been done and all was ok. The only test not done was Cushings but she does not have all symptoms so this test was thought not relevant.
  6. Deana

    Deana New Member

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    Thank you for taking the time to respond. Urine and blood have been tested. They did take a few days to get back to me so can only think they were external. Although urine was tested straight away and all show to be ok. I am a little unsure about the vets to be honest it seems that they are just as in the dark as we are.
  7. Chris B

    Chris B Member

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    Did they test her stools by any chance.

    Licking at front paws usually indicates a bit of discomfort somewhere. As the other tests seem to have been started, it may be worth including a stool check
  8. Malka

    Malka Member

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    All tests are relevant when you have a dog with sudden unexplained symptoms which do not fit into anything a basic blood test will show. How does your vet known that it is not Cushings if it she has not been tested for that? Do you know exactly what blood tests were done? Or did your vet just tell you that everything was OK.

    Has she had a full thyroid panel done or just the basic one vets tend to do?

    It might be a good idea to change to a vet who knows what he/she actually knows what he/she might be looking for.
  9. Tinabrina

    Tinabrina New Member

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    Hi Deana, I have only just joined the group & I was immediately drawn to your conversation & was wondering how your dog is doing & have you got any further with what her problem is? My 13 year old border terrier Toby, about a month ago, started with the same problems drinking loads of water, never seeming to quench his first & urinating in his bed & in the house, which he hasn't done before, no paw licking though. Took him to our vets & he tested Toby for diabetes mellitus, diabetes insipidus & Cushing disease & Addison's disease, all tests came back inconclusive, so the vet thought the problem was some sort of obsessive-compulsive disorder, so off we went with pills to see if this helps, diazepam 10mg, 3 times a day & he's not doing so good so far, infact the urinating is a bit less but I am restricting water, small amounts often, but Toby now seems mithered & unsettled, so I'm going back to the vets tomorrow! I'm getting really worried now, what started out as an annoying urinating problem has now turned into something far more serious. I'd be really interested to know how your border terrier is?
  10. Malka

    Malka Member

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    @Tinabrina - I do not/did not have a Border Terrier but results "coming back inclusive" - coming back from where? Where the tests done in situ or sent off to a specialist laboratory?

    I am not sure how much a Border Terrier should weigh but 10mg x 3 times a day of Diazepam is a heck of a lot. It is far more than my epi girl had to have after a major seizure, and she only had to have it for maximum 3 days.

    Please do not restrict Toby's water - whatever is wrong with him, restricting his water intake can only make it worse.
  11. Chris B

    Chris B Member

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    If all the tests have come back OK, perhaps trying a change of food to novel proteins (ie salmon and potato if the dog has previously eaten meat and grain) to rule out possible allergens and having the anal gland checked (in case it is pain related)

    Whatever parts of the blood tests have come back 'inconclusive' I would want tested again so that a conclusive result (either positive or negative) is returned

    Don't restrict water. If the dog is drinking excessively, it is usually for a very good reason
  12. Malka

    Malka Member

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    "Inconclusive" means that either the tests were done incorrectly, or that whoever did the tests did not know what they were doing.

  13. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    This is a difficult topic as the tests for Cushing's, Addison's, and Diabetes Insipidus are not straightforward. These three diseases may be located either in the brain, or in the area of the organ itself. Because of the progressive onset, and the involvement of stress hormones, conclusive tests can be long, complex, and extremely expensive.
    It is because of this complexity that I posted a link to Dr. Hines site, 2ndChance, which has such useful htm links. Taking Cushing's as an example, a glance at the lower part of the page,
    http://2ndchance.info/cushings.htm
    Shows just how difficult it can be to arrive at a definite diagnosis.
  14. Tinabrina

    Tinabrina New Member

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    Thank you for replying, I thought 30mg of diazepam a day was excessive too, anyway I am back to the vets tomorrow, need to try something else as he's getting worse. I'm giving him water every hour, measured out of his 2 litre quota of water a day, otherwise he'd drink the lot just about all at once. I'd really like to know how Deanas little border terrier is, Especially since both our border terriers are presenting with very similar symptoms & at about the same time! P.s I meant to say that his tests for Cushing & addisons disease were sent away to an external lab & his levels were normal/slightly above normal, nothing to indicate any of those diseases.
  15. Malka

    Malka Member

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    My Vet did not prescribe diazepam or state how much to give my girl - he left it up to me as to how much to give her and when. Usually I would give her 10mg once she was able to swallow, and if she was having a really bad time I would give her another 10mg an hour later.

    After that I would give her 5mg if she was still antsy, and just dose her 5mg at a time if I thought it necessary, but as I said, it was for a maximum of three days and I only gave it to her when it was necessary. Incidentally, she weighed about 22kg at the end, which was about 4kg too much but that was due to her medication and her desperate need for food after a seizure.

    So for me, the thought of 10mg TID for an as yet undiagnosed problem, is just wrong. No wonder he seems "mithered & unsettled" - that amount of diazepam would do that to any dog.

    I do hope you find out the cause of Toby's problem. Is there any chance that you can get a second opinion from another vet?
  16. Tinabrina

    Tinabrina New Member

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    Thank you! As it happens the vet I usually see is away on holiday so I will see another vet today. I stopped his diazepam after yesterday mornings dose & this morning he seems a bit more settled, still not right but not as bad as yesterday, yesterday was a very worrying day!
  17. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Tina, depending on how long Toby had been dosed with 10mg TID [30mg/day] diazepam. suddenly stopping might not be ideal - better slow the dosage down until he sees a vet who knows what he is doing.

    I knew what I was doing with how much and when my girl needed diazepam, and my wonderful vet knew that I knew what I was doing. But then she had a diagnosed problem and was on strong medication for that, so it was quite easy to know when she needed diazepam, which is why it struck me as wrong to have Toby to be dosed with such a large amount when he had not even been diagnosed.

    I wish him well.
  18. Tinabrina

    Tinabrina New Member

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    Thank you Malka, I must admit I feel as though I ought to have my own conversation going on, as I'm impinging on Deanas conversation really, maybe I'll just do that! In the meantime we're back from the vets & we're going to try Vivitonin 50mg x twice a day. He did say that he thinks Toby may have a brain tumour & asked me what I wanted to do & I said that I want Toby to be happy & he said that he didn't know whether that could be achieved, i felt totally gutted, I nearly burst into tears, but managed to control myself & wait till I got back into my car before having a real good cry!
  19. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    I just want to wish Toby and yourself best wishes. I hope the Vivitonin helps him feel happier.
  20. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Tina, as both you and Deana have Border Terriers with some similar symptoms, I think it might be better to keep this in one thread, because it might possibly help other people in the future. I do not think that Deana will think object to this. Obviously if she does then a new thread would be called for.

    Regarding the possible brain tumour? Unless you want to put Toby through an MRI and lumbar puncture to find if maybe yes, maybe no, you have to think of what you would do if it was yes and not no. And you still might not have a definite diagnosis. I know what I would do if the answer was yes, but Toby is not my dog.

    I am sorry I cannot be of any more help. I just wish you both well, and that goes for Deana and her girl as well.
  21. Tinabrina

    Tinabrina New Member

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    Oh thank you Carole, he's actually been a bit better this afternoon, more relaxed, so it was obviously diazepam not agreeing with him, infact he sat still & relaxed for 25 mins, I was so relieved to see him rest & be peaceful for a while. Got to just take one day at a time & appreciate his good days & look after him as best I can.Thank you!

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