Stud dog doesn't perform Questions

Discussion in 'King Charles Spaniel' started by Thorsten Altenkirch, Jan 31, 2016.

  1. Thorsten Altenkirch

    Thorsten Altenkirch New Member

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    Stud dog doesn't perform

    Our stud dog Oscar is a 2 year old King Charles Cavalier Spaniel. He already fathered a number of healthy puppies including 3 litters with own bitches and about 10 with others. He was doing quite well getting a tie quite quickly. However, now we had 2 failures in a row. Today there was a nice bitch and he was trying and trying but no tie. After the previous failure we had him checked with the vet but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with his equipment. The first of the 2 bitches where he failed was a bit snappy so we were wondering wether he is feeling insecure. Also the week before it seems he had mated with our own bitch but this wasn't properly supervised.
    We are wondering what could be wrong. Has anybody had similar experiences. And what can we do about it? Any advice appreciated!
    Thorsten
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  3. Bulldogs4Life

    Bulldogs4Life Member

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    Floppyears and Malka like this.
    The poor dog is probably tired of being pimped out.
  4. Jackie

    Jackie Member

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    Floppyears and Malka like this.
    Sired 13 litters in 2 years, my guess is the boy is worn out and needs a rest ,
  5. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Floppyears and Malka like this.
    I just hope he has all his current health certificates, and you checked the bitches certs. too.
    This beautiful breed has suffered enough from prolific breeding.
  6. Bulldogs4Life

    Bulldogs4Life Member

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    CaroleC and Floppyears like this.
    Not 13 litters in 2yrs, 13 litters and the dog is only 2yrs old!

    While SM,can appear young, the fact that it might not show symptoms until the dog is mature would make me think breeders wouldn't be breeding like this. Seems irresponsible. Shouldn't they wait until the doc is a little older than however young this doc started their career to better their chances. Also wait to see how some pups turn out instead of constantly breeding.
  7. 6JRT's

    6JRT's Member

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    Far to young to have sired 13 litters he must of been just a puppy himself when he sired his first litter.

    My own stud dog had only sired 4 litters by the time he was 30 months old (2&1/2years)

    Give your poor dog a break let him be s dog not a money machine for this coming year
  8. Azz

    Azz Adminstrator

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  9. Thorsten Altenkirch

    Thorsten Altenkirch New Member

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    Our stud dog Oscar is a 2 year old King Charles Cavalier Spaniel. He already fathered a number of healthy puppies including 3 litters with own bitches and about 10 with others. He was doing quite well getting a tie quite quickly. However, now we had 3 failures in a row. Today there was a nice bitch and he was trying and trying but no tie. After the previous failure we had him checked with the vet but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with his equipment. The first of the 2 bitches where he failed was a bit snappy so we were wondering wether he is feeling insecure. Also the week before it seems he had mated with our own bitch but this wasn't properly supervised.
    We are wondering what could be wrong. Has anybody had similar experiences. And what can we do about it? Any advice appreciated!
    Thorsten
  10. Thorsten Altenkirch

    Thorsten Altenkirch New Member

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    This is not very helpful. We first had 2 litters with our own bitches before we used him as a stud when he was 1.5 years old. All the pups are fine so far and we do keep in touch with the people who he has been mating with. 10 studs in about a year is 1/month on average and this is neither too much for the dog nor "overbreeding".
    Can I please ask people to reply to my question instead of posting silly comments. Thank you.
  11. Thorsten Altenkirch

    Thorsten Altenkirch New Member

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  12. Thorsten Altenkirch

    Thorsten Altenkirch New Member

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    You mean the lucky dog?
  13. Thorsten Altenkirch

    Thorsten Altenkirch New Member

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    As I said we had pups with our own bitches and all of them were very healthy.
    A dog in this age is very well capable of fathering pups and it is not clear why one should wait until he is older.
    Not very helpful.
  14. Thorsten Altenkirch

    Thorsten Altenkirch New Member

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    Why would he be a poor dog??? He was 18 month when he fathered his first puppies. So your stud started later. What is your point?
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2016
  15. Thorsten Altenkirch

    Thorsten Altenkirch New Member

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    I am quite annoyed about the comments I have received. We have a problem and instead of giving helpful advice people write all sorts of silly comments.
    He fathered his first puppies when he was 18 month old and they and the subsequent puppies were all healthy. We did get very positive feedback from the owners of the bitches (not only cavaliers but also cavapoos).
    A male dog at 18 months is well able to father puppies and having 1-2 studs per month is no "overuse" or in any way harmful or unpleasant to the dog (quite the contrary).
    There is a considerable demand in cavalier studs and I can't see any harm in answering this demand. And yes, we are happy about this extra income.
    Ok, we do have a problem and if somebody tells me "in my experience when you start breeding young there can be problems" I am interested to hear this. What I am not interested to hear is any off-the-cuff remarks like the one I have received.
    In the moment my impression is that this forum's purpose is for people who are bored just to fire off some silly comments but not to provide any real help. If there is no change I am out.
  16. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    I made a comment earlier in this post about health certificates and prolific breeding. This was not intended to be either a silly or off the cuff comment, on the contrary, it was heartfelt.
    In the past I owned, showed, judged, and yes, occasionally bred Cavaliers for over 25 years. I was a member of a breed club committee, and my stock was, even in those days, certified free from mitral valve disease, hereditary cataract, and hip dysplasia. If I was still in the breed, I would be doing my best to try and keep SM/CM from surfacing in my breeding stock. I would certainly not want my affix associated with producing litters to sundry, untested bitches.
    Why would anyone with the interests of this beautiful and loving breed at heart, want to be responsible for the production of so many litters, with no knowledge of what may hide within the breeding of a young dog? You now say you are also using this dog to produce crossbreds - forget the fancy made up name - these puppies are just that.
    Another mark of your inexperience is placing your post under the King Charles forum. The breed is called the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel!
    You say you are annoyed, well, that makes two of us.
    This is an ethical forum, and your attitude smacks of commercialism.
  17. Jackie

    Jackie Member

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    That`s makes a few of us who feel quite annoyed,

    You asked for advice, I gave it to you, it is not s silly comment, it is an observation based on fact, you may have used your dog to much in to short a time, and he is simply had enough.

    You are also missing the point, that its not the age you started to use him from, its the AMOUNT of times you have used him, and to be honest if you did not start to use him till 18 mths and he is still only 2, and he has sired 13 litters ............ well words fail me!!!!

    Nowhere do you say the boy has had all relevant health tests, along with all the bitches you put him too.

    Do you screen the bitches check health records, is your boy clear of all inherent disease.

    I have to agree with Carole, you smack of a byb , and if you are asking for any positive feedback on this forum, you are unlikely to get it.

    Seeing as you seem to know so much, I am confused why are are asking for advice,
  18. Jackie

    Jackie Member

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    6JRT's and Pork1epe1 like this.
    Let's break this down......
    He's not been used till he was 18mths old...he is only 2.... If my maths are correct that's 13 times in 6 mths....

    24 weeks add a few more for actual age and days on mths

    13 times in 24 weeks....

    No need to say anything more !
  19. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Plus the 3 tie failures, and the unsupervised mating with their own bitch.
  20. Dogloverlou

    Dogloverlou Member

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    So has your boy been health tested for the following conditions - http://www.dogbreedhealth.com/cavalier-king-charles-spaniel/

    • Eye disease: Multifocal Retinal Dysplasia (MRD) (Schedule A); Hereditary cataract (HD) (Schedule A); Multiple ocular defects (MOD) (Schedule B)
    • Hip Dysplasia (malformation of the hip joints causing pain and lameness): breed mean score 15.7 (parents should be lower)
    • Chiari malformation Syringomyelia (CMSM) (occipital bone malformation which squashes the hindbrain, blocks the normal flow of cerebrospinal fluid and causes pockets of fluid within the spinal cord) causes pain and other neurological symptoms. An extremely high incidence in this breed. Almost all Cavaliers have the Chiari malformation and at 6 years and older 70% will have SM. You are strongly advised to go to a breeder who uses the BVA/KC CMSM scheme rather than any other scheme.
    DNA tests available
    Parents should be tested for:
    • CC/DE Dry Eye Curly Coat (eyes produce no tears, skin very dry, coat curly and coarse)
    • EF Episodic Falling Syndrome (involuntary muscle spasms)
    Unofficial (breed club) schemes
    • Mitral Valve Disease (MVD) Heart scheme: both parents clear of heart murmur at two and a half years and grandparents clear at 5 years. MVD has a very high incidence in the breed with 50% developing heart murmurs by the age of 5 years. Many Cavaliers will die prematurely from this disease.
    • No dog should be bred before 2 and a half years of age
    My betting is no he hasn't. Therefore that makes you irresponsible and the last thing this little breed needs is being bred with no health tests in place. They are very prone to some very serious genetic illnesses that are not always apparent until middle age or so, so your claims that all pups are healthy so far does not mean they will continue to be so and the more your use your male and the more he *may* pass on a genetic defect the more pups you're putting at risk.

    From your posts here I feel he is only a good money making venture to you. Using him 1-2 times per month is by far to much!! Poor thing must be exhausted!
  21. Bulldogs4Life

    Bulldogs4Life Member

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    So the oldest pups are 6 months? They are "healthy" SM might appear when older, it isn't something that is apparent at birth. You're making silly comments. You bred designer dogs as well. Do you think they will be healthy being mixed? There is still a chance for health problems.

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