The journey of Cash - my Hovawart Photos

Discussion in 'Hovawart' started by Dogloverlou, Mar 16, 2014.

  1. Dogloverlou

    Dogloverlou Member

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    No, I don't think so. It's just a test that to abide by the terms and conditions of breeding by the ethics of the breed club, must be taken. I asked the vet about fast tracking the results but they said it had to be sent away to an outside lab and the results would be back within a 'few days'. The bitch is ready by next Friday/Saturday time so left very little opportunity in between finding out the results and organizing everything. I do know the second choice of stud dog is owned by someone who probably had a lot more influence than me too and more experience.

    He is still young though, yes. I asked his breeder today what they felt the right time to use a male was and they said at least 3 years old. I have to agree and have to say I'm not a fan of those who use young males, especially in our breed with their late development/maturity. But on the other hand you have people stating that if you don't use him soon he will be passed by for more experienced males. We will just keep on doing what we're doing :)
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  3. Jackie

    Jackie Member

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    Before using him I would have to think long and hard about what you want out of a dog, are you prepared for a change in temperament , using him could make him more aggressive towards other males, it might not but you need to be sure you can cope with any change if any. I know being a small breed and his blood lines will be beneficial to the breed, but I would not worry he has been passed over this time , it gives him a little time to mature a bit more, only use him if it's what you want to do, don't be pushed into using him if you are not sure.

    Do you need hips and elbows scored too.
  4. Dogloverlou

    Dogloverlou Member

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    Yes, definitely something I continue to bear in mind going forward. It's a tough spot to be in on one hand because as you say, the possible pitfalls of using him i.e temperament changes, and on the other hand introducing his linage to the UK dogs which I think is valuable, and of course much later down the line wanting a pup from him myself. It's one of those things I won't really know the end result until he's been used....for better or worse! As you say more time gives him room to mature and develop further which is certainly not a bad thing.

    Hips are already done. Elbows were optional and I stupidly didn't have them done at the same time as his hips so not sure whether I'll do so now. May have him eye and DM tested at a later date too.

    Have you used Figo?
  5. Jackie

    Jackie Member

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    I understand as you say it's something you won't know till you try it.

    No I have not used him,turned someone down a while ago. Maybe in the future I don't know, my thoughts are unless I want a pup, I won't .
  6. 6JRT's

    6JRT's Member

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    If you do put Cash up as stud dog make sure legal contracts are drawn up, beforehand as things can go sour, lots of stud dog owners end up with nothing when no contracts are in place, some Bitch owner's will insist you have a puppy of their choice which will be the runt of the litter not one of your choice & some bitch owners will get out of any paying you your stud payments by saying your stud dog failed to get their bitch pregnant [in fact this is getting more common now specially when no contracts have been drawn up]
    You will need to work out what fee's you intend to charge for Cash being a stud dog [prices can vary from winning bitch to just place bitch] then put in contract that money needs to be paid upfront.
    If you want a puppy then you must draw contract up stating you have first choice of puppies.
    If you want puppy plus payment then this must be stated in contract, you will get 2nd choice of puppies along with half of the full stud fee's ie lets say normal full fee's being £700 then half would be £350.
  7. Jackie

    Jackie Member

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    Sorry Tina but I don`t recognize any of the above, and I know a lot of folk who have both stud dogs and bitches, maybe that happens in JRT , but I doubt very much Louise will have to worry any of the above.

    Firstly owners of stud dogs don`t usually go round touting their dogs, its usually the bitches owner that will be the first to contact you not the other way around, a contract/understanding is obviously the first thing you need to discuss, whether you want a stud fee or a pup, the bitches owner will always take pick of litter, (otherwise why do it) that does not mean you end up with the runt, and to be honest, you should not be having runts in a well bred /looked after litter anyway.

    Depending on what the bitches owner wants dog or bitch, you (stud dog owner) will have pick of the opposite sex (or second pick of same sex), that`s if you want a pup, or you take a stud fee, having different stud prices for higher ranking bitches is bazaar , never heard anything like it in my life, and I would run from a stud dogs owner who followed that policy,

    Half fee AND puppy ............... `thats madness, who would agree to that !!!

    From my understanding of most reputable breeders is , stud fee is the price of a puppy, or sometimes a little less, you do get the occasional overpriced stud, but that is mainly greed from top winning dog, but that`s not the norm.

    I think most people with a dog another breeder wants to use, will agree to a contract that states, a fee or pup, and if the bitch misses then a free return mating, this is specially evident if the stud is a maiden dog.

    I am sure given how small the breed is, and everyone knowing each other Louise will not come across any of the highly dubious goings on you seem to have witnessed.
  8. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Goodness, have things really changed so much since my day?
    The first mating used to be, 'free to prove', as most breeders preferred to use a proven dog, who already had some idea of his job.
    I'm sure that the majority of show breeders turned away more bitches than they ever allowed, as they were only interested in producing quality stock, and really suitable bitches are few and far between. My two boys were only ever listed as being at stud by arrangement, in the breed club year book, they were never publicly advertised.
    Though there was a specimen KC stud contract available, I never used one - or was ever asked to sign one. The show world was close enough for trust to be important, and it was not unusual for a stud owner to say, 'Pay me when you sell the first puppy', but in those days there were not large sums of money in dogs, and very few commercial kennels.
    I'm sure that there must have been rogues around, but ringside gossip usually ensured that they didn't prosper for long.
  9. 6JRT's

    6JRT's Member

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    This is the information I received from the KC when I put K9 up for stud, my contracts were drawn up by the JRT show group. (as we were part of the select KC breeding programme) There's lots of posts on Facebook from stud dog owners asking for advice, after the owners of the bitch as failed to make any payments & won't give them the puppy of their choice.
    Not all owners of the bitches are honest, I am just warning you to make sure legal binding contracts are drawn up beforehand.
  10. 6JRT's

    6JRT's Member

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    Forgot to say the half payment plus 2nd choice puppy, is coming up regular on Facebook, (owner of bitch going back on their word) the stud dogs owners saying they were approach at KC dog shows by the owners of the bitches, lastest one to put post up is a BC owner who's dog was used to mate with a placed BC bitch.
  11. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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    Can you give links to KC info and Facebook please.
  12. Jackie

    Jackie Member

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    Yes please I would be interested to see this on the KC website
  13. 6JRT's

    6JRT's Member

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    Stud Dog Contracts And What They Should Contain :

    A stud dog is a dog that is used to cover (impregnate) a bitch in order to produce a litter of puppies. Generally, stud dogs are provided by their owners to offer this service to bitches owned by other people, if they have a particularly desirable or high quality pedigree male dog that may be in demand as the father of potential litters! The owner of the bitch intending to be bred from will then pay a fee to the owner of the stud dog for the stud dog’s services. As with any other exchange of services for financial reward, it is important that a contract is in place to ascertain what is agreed as part of the provision of the stud service, and lay out the expectations as agreed by both parties.

    If you have decided to put your dog up for stud or are seeking a stud dog to cover your bitch, it is important to ensure before you go forwards with the service that both parties are protected and on the same page about what is involved, and this is where the formal contract of agreement comes into play. Whether you are seeking to draw up a contract of your own for stud services, or ensure that any contract that you sign is fit for purpose, this article will outline for you what should be contained within a contract for stud dog services in order to protect both parties.

    Details of the dogs and people involved

    The first part of the contract should indicate the details of both the stud dog and the bitch that will be bred to them, including all of the following information for each dog:





      • Registered Kennel Club name
      • Kennel Club pedigree registration number
      • Colour and markings
      • Breed and type
      • Microchip number or any other permanent identification details


        The first section should also outline the details of the two parties making the agreement, i.e., the owners of the two respective dogs.

        • Full names
        • Full addresses
        • Contact telephone number


          This section of the contract should also confirm that both the owner of the stud dog and the owner of the bitch have reviewed the pedigree registration papers for the other dog, accept that they are valid and genuine, and that they pertain to the dog in question.

    Health and wellness




      • It is recommended that both dogs and bitches used for breeding are screened for brucellosis prior to mating, and the details of this test and the results for each dog should be listed.
      • The owners of both dogs should warrant that their dogs are both healthy and in good condition, with no known illnesses, health defects or problems, and that both parties agree this.
      • Any health testing that the dogs have undergone (such as for breed-specific predispositions to any health conditions) should also be listed, with a copy of the results for each dog’s tests attached to the contract.
      • Both parties should sign and agree that they have seen the results of the other dog’s relevant tests, and accept them as genuine.


        Remuneration for the service rendered


        The owner of the bitch will pay the owner of the stud dog for the stud service, and precisely what this costs and what the fee includes should be outlined in detail.

        • This should include how long the bitch will stay with the stud dog, how many attempts at mating may be undertaken, and any other conditions.
        • What should happen in the event that a pregnancy is not achieved should be clearly stated and agreed by both parties.
        • The owner of the stud dog should also sign a declaration that they will fill out all of the relevant Kennel Club paperwork to confirm that mating took place and that they recognise their dog as the sire of the subsequent litter.
        • If there is any agreement made between the owner of the stud dog and the owner of the bitch as to the stud dog owner being given first refusal to buy or choose a puppy from the subsequent litter, this should be detailed as well.


          Declarations and agreement of the contract


          Both parties should make a written declaration at the end of the contract, covering all of the following points:

          • That they have read and understood every part of the contract.
          • That they agree with all of the terms and caveats of the contract.
          • That they have seen any appropriate paperwork (such as pedigree papers or health testing data) that should accompany the terms of the contract.
          • That they understand the purpose of the contract and agree with its intentions.


            This should then be signed and dated by both parties before any deposit is handed over, payment made, or mating is begun.



    Not sure how to do links so have just copied & paste what it says on stud page.
  14. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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    Tina you are posting misleading information, that article is from pets4homes NOT the KC.

    http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advice/stud-dog-contracts-and-what-they-should-contain.html

    This is from KC site

    Thinking of using your stud dog https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/8313/stud.pdf

    The terms and conditions of a mating do not fall within the jurisdiction of the Kennel Club. It is therefore advisable that any breeding terms or stud fees should be arranged by mutual agreement in writing between the owner of the dog and the owner of the bitch before the mating takes place. As a general point, if a dog has not previously been used at stud, the owner might charge a nominal fee covering expenses etc. Once the dog has been proven (i.e. has produced puppies), the stud fee may be reviewed for any future matings according to the value of the dog as a proven sire, and the quality of his progeny. A guide to an appropriate stud fee may be obtained from studying the advertisement columns in the canine press, as breeders may advertise their dogs for stud. Alternatively you can contact your nearest breed club, who may be able to give you advice on this and any other matters relating to your breed. t It is important to note that the Kennel Club will not register the offspring which are the result of any mating between father and daughter, mother and son or brother and sister, save in exceptional circumstances or for scientifically proven welfare reasons.
  15. Jackie

    Jackie Member

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    Sorry Tina but what you posted is not from the KC website, so no sure why you would say you got yours ( what you posted) sent to you by the KC, what you have posted is from pets4homes, not from a official organisation ......it's very misleading to post such info.
  16. Dogloverlou

    Dogloverlou Member

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    Jackie and CaroleC like this.
    This ^^^

    We're not talking about breeding a highly popular breed here @6JRT's with every Tom, Dick & Harry at it. The Hov breed community is small and anyone breeding irresponsibly in any capacity would be quickly outed!! So whilst I appreciate your comments they're not applicable here.
  17. Dogloverlou

    Dogloverlou Member

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    And whilst I'm at it. An updated pic of the boy from a few weeks ago after a bath and groom :)

    [​IMG]
  18. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Cash just gets more glorious and stunning, and I adore his colouring. :007:
  19. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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    Such a handsome boy .
  20. Dogloverlou

    Dogloverlou Member

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    Hate to ask, but if anyone can copy & paste the write up for Hovawarts from Richmond I'd be very grateful.

    I have a feeling the judge didn't particularly like Cash :(
  21. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    You should have just said that he was RBD! They all count.
    I will look out for Richmond. I haven't seen the East of England report yet, that was in Not Sep Classified wasn't it? I have seen the NW&P report for Hovawarts, but the Cash Jackpot wasn't mentioned - I think you did say that it was someone else's bitch that you won with that day.

    I'm always searching for mentions of Merry. Since I had her she's had two firsts, (one was also a bloodless BOB), a second, and two thirds. What has made it into DW? Just the two thirds. Not a single critique, grrr!

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