Utes, B.I, N.I, BWD, Tamaskans.... The future? Discussions

Following on from the recent threads on these types of dogs and the controversy. What is the future for these 'breeds'? What should the breeders and societies be trying to achieve? Should registration even be a one of their goals as its clearly not realistic?
They are increasingly referred to as a breed yet they are so young as a type, that there is no true type.
There is lots of people airing their concerns yet these types of dogs are not going anywhere and will only increase in popularity; so what is the way forward?

Just thought a more constructive thread about where to go next would be more helpful

My honest opinion as an outsider looking in.

As long as the bickering continues, there isn't a way forward and the dogs are going no-where other than being on a slippery slope.

A great shame!

A constructive NI thread, I'm afraid they don't exist.

Theres not a way forward..because the "breed" is based on lies and deceit and fake "pedigrees" and liars are in charge..and breeders are in it for the money..regardless of the dogs..
They just stick any old name on the "Pedigree" then change it at will 5 yrs down the road to something else so they can use the dog/bitch a little bit more..

ok ok but the dogs aren't going anywhere. But if people (breeders etc) are open about these dog not being a 'breed' as such that is a start. Is there no way the various off shoots of 'wolfy' type dogs including the NIS could get together and agree on something for the good of the dogs?!?!

The simple answer is NO! There are too many egos wanting to 'claim' this type of dog as their own. No one is in it for the dogs. These people DO NOT want to work together that is the problem.

These types of dogs either need to be started completely from scratch using decent health tested founding dogs, they need to be controlled and bred by non egotistical ungreedy totally in it for the RIGHT reasons breeders OR they need to be left to die out.

Sadly the former solution is unattainable and would take years and years and what would you do with all the pups that didn't make the grade? Culling isn't an option which would mean lots and lots of pups to find good homes for where they would never be used for breeding, again that just isn't going to happen.

believe it or not, there a few csv purebreed owners over here that do not want to cross them and want a decent future for this stunning breed ;-)

oops noticed csv wasnt in the title!

The breeds will certainly stay exactly where they are if people continue to beat them down and pretend they don't exist.

Tupac- i will be another owner that will not want to cross the czech... You haven't replied to my cvd thread by the way!

they do a good job of beating themselves down :-(

who pretends they dont exist?...they exist alright,but they are not a breed!.

they will just end up the new lurchers...

lurchers at least were bred to do a job...not just look the part.

tupac you should be answering my other thread!!

lol...i lost it,off to find it...but its monday eve,and it means i have to think...and be serious ;-) ;-)

It would be great if all the different factions and individuals could work together, but sadly in reality that will only happen when hell freezes over, and satan opens a ski resort.

As for what to do ref the dogs.

As starting again with all new foundation stock isn't an option realisticly, I'd suggest widening the gene pool by crossbreeding to dogs of the suspected foundation breeds, that have been health tested and whose history is known, and keeping a propper record of the dogs used, their health test results and of their offspring etc. Some breeders are doing that already.

Just saying let them die out, whilst being as valid an opinion as any other, isn't going to happen, so in the end what you are left with is this:

Do something or do nothing.

Try to fix the mess, or let it get worse.

Maybe if the csv and saarloos hadn't been given such a crap start in this country, by the very people who were supposed to champion them, then maybe they would have taken over from the look alikes, but then, thats assuming that the people who got lookalikes would want a csv or saarloos, or are suited to one.

for me, the breed will only improve is someone with a proven history in another breed take this breed on and sort them out, someone who has bred dogs to a high standard under KC.

The problem is, anyone notable in breeding will not touch them with a barge pole, why would they?

I think if people want this type of dog, the csv would be a way to go. But only if they want them for the right reason,

Sadly I think to much damage has been done with NI's and similar,
what you have are a huge amount of novice breeders thinking they can produce a new breed.....that coupled with the false peds and so on, its all just to much.

so do i (not suprisingly )
but thats the thing...for the right reason :-(
the main reason i can see for sibes in n.i 's is there non guarding,happy go lucky nature...alot different to a pure csv(dont get me wrong Tupac is a happy chappie),no i dont think a fair amount of people could handle one if got for the wrong reasons(but again with most large breeds this is the case i guess)
do u get what i mean?

yup, I do believe it or not,

I preach the same thing to people thinking about getting rotties there is good and bad in all breeds, going in with eyes open is the best way

I dont think many breeders are happy to ship csv dogs to the uk now are they? given that the breed has been used to x breed with the NI dogs, I think from what I have read that many foreign breeders are very distrustful of people in the uk now :-(

I agree with much of what Shona has said. I hope for there to be a future but I think it depends on who is involved with the dogs.