Your questions for official representatives of 'Utonagan' type dogs Questions

Discussion in 'Utonagan' started by Alphatest, Jun 18, 2010.

  1. Alphatest

    Alphatest Adminstrator

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    Azz

    Your questions for official representatives of 'Utonagan' type dogs

    As many of you know, there is much controversy surrounding these dogs and those involved in the creation and breeding of them. We know that official representatives of these breeds use this website, so, we are putting up this questions thread in an effort to get some facts, and give the official reps a chance to address concerns and quell any 'misinformation'.

    We will allow one week for questions to be submitted, then a month for questions to be answered. There will then be one round of further questions relating to answers provided, and a final set of answers - then the thread will be closed. People can then draw their own conclusions from what they read.

    We are under no obligation to host this Q&A, but as we have a care of duty towards dogs, their health and prospective owners alike, we feel it is the responsible thing to do.

    If you are going to take part in this thread please read the notes below before posting. Thanks.

    Posting questions

    Anyone can post questions related to this breed, however, you must follow these rules:

    • Do NOT accuse anyone of wrong-doing. If you heard something, say so, and ask if it is true. For example:

    "I have heard from an owner who's Northern Inuit dog is epileptic (her dog's name is Spot btw) that she duly informed her breeder about the dog's condition and passed on advice from her vet that the same mating should not be repeated as the condition is genetic - yet the mating was repeated despite months of notice. Was the mating actually repeated? If so why?"​

    • Do NOT name any breeders. You may say 'the breeder of my dog', or 'a breeder in _town/city_' instead. However if you think it will help the official representative identify the case to answer your question more effectively, you can mention any associated dogs names (as per the example in the previous point). This is because we do not allow 'naming and shaming' on our forums.

    • You have one week from the date this thread was posted to post questions.

    These are the most important rules, and is the only legally acceptable way for us to host this Questions Thread. However please keep checking back in case we add more rules as we may have missed something. Any posts not abiding by these rules will be removed without notice. Also note, there will be a private research section where members will be able to post more info (including names/dates etc) at a later time.

    Answering questions

    • Please wait one week after this thread has been posted before answering any questions.
    • You may only answer a question if you are a current representative of your breed. I.e of the breed club/society. OR, someone who was involved in the creation of this breed.
    • When answering please state your full name and your position/details of your official affiliation.

    General notes

    It should go without saying that just because someone asks a question it does not make it 'fact' - people often hear things on the grapevine and things can get mixed up or exaggerated... sometimes people may even make things up. So take what you read with as much a pinch of salt as you deem necessary.

    Edit: Questions session extended

    Please note the one week limit for questions no longer applies, as the questions session has been extended until further notice.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2010
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  3. Alphatest

    Alphatest Adminstrator

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    Here are some official questions from Dogsey:

    • Could you please provide accurate details about the origins of this breed, how it was created, why it was created - and by who, etc.
    • What is the character like for such a breed?
    • Can you please detail the exercise requirements for these dogs.
    • What about training? Are they easy to train? Any special notes re training?
    • Recognition status - Is the breed recognised by the KC, AKC or FCI? If not are you in talks with them? If so what is current situation?
    • Size - Would you say the dogs are Small, Medium, Large or Extra Large?
    • Height - How tall should an owner expect their dog to get? (a range such as 57 - 63 cm is ok). How tall should an owner expect their bitch to get?
    • Weight - How heavy should an owner expect their dog to get? (a range such as 30 - 32 kg is ok). How heavy should an owner expect their bitch to get?
    • Colours - What colours are permissible in this breed?
    • Life expectancy - What is the average or expected lifespan?
    • Coat - Please provide details of the dogs coat.
    • Grooming - Please provide grooming details.
    • Health - Please list the Health Issues related, or are known to affect this breed.

    This information is usually available from any Breed Club or Society. And is commonly used in books about dog breeds, or breed profiles such as the ones we have on Dogsey :)
  4. Louise13

    Louise13 New Member

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    Louise
    I have read & heard that you plan to use offspring from a Malamute with the Nowitna affix in your breeding program..Can you confirm this?

    And also can you tell me if the owner of the Nowitna affix is happy for his breeding to be used in this plan and also if he has given his permission for his affix in conjunction with the Utonagon or British Utonagon type?
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2010
  5. scorpio

    scorpio Member

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    Sheree
    Why are you breeding these dogs when there are already so many different established breeds with full history to choose from?
  6. Krusewalker

    Krusewalker

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    kiwi
    1. what is the 'official' breed society for utes?
    and what are the credentials for making this society so?

    2. what differentiates utes from NI's and Tamaskans?
  7. Lionhound

    Lionhound

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    Lorna
    Specifically for the B.U.A.

    Regarding the breeding/crossing plan for these dogs, has a concise plan been drawn up with measurable goals eg - specific,measured,acceptable,realistic and timed?

    And if so, if they are not achieved within the time frame set, will you admit defeat or draw up another plan?
  8. tazer

    tazer

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    Tazer/Taz
    For a representative of the BUA.

    Ref the outcrossing/cross breeding program.

    1) Foundation dogs.
    (I) Is there an agreed number of foundation dogs?
    (II) If so, what is that number?
    (III) Why that specific number?
    (IV) If not, why not?

    2) Breeds.
    (I) Given the questions over health issues, levels of inbreeding and inaccurate record keeping with regards to dogs pedegrees, why have you decided to include northern inuit into the british utonagan lines?
    (II) Apart from sibs, mals, gsds and ni's (not counting the uts) are there any other breeds you plan on adding into the lines?
    (III) As has been previously asked, does the owner of the affix Nowitna, know one of his/her pups is being used by yourselves, and has he given permition to this dogs owner, to do so?

    3) Breeding.
    (I) Is there a maximum number of times a stud dog can be used?
    (II) If so what is the number?
    (III) if not, why not? and would you consider implementing such a limit?
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 18, 2010
  9. abbie

    abbie Member

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    Could you please give reasons why you chose to include the ni in your breeding plan and why you chose the dogs that you did.

    I understand that the 2 dogs are littermates and from a father niece mating. Could you please give reasons why this will improve the utonagan and give details of all the dogs in the pedigree of the ni's including photographs and health test results. I would be particularly interested in details of Mahlek Meegwetch.
  10. MerlinsMum

    MerlinsMum

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    Sue
    What are the officially tested Hip scores and eye certifications for individuals of this breed, and where can they be seen?

    If these scores are not as expected, what would be your justification in using affected dogs in your breeding programme, when most established breeds are working to avoid using high scoring or affected animals?
  11. Alphatest

    Alphatest Adminstrator

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    • When do you think you will achieve breeding true to type? I.e the goal where mating two members of your breed will result in pups, that will look so similar to others in your breed that people start recognising them as a 'breed'. To demonstrate, here are photos of dogs of the Rottweiler breed.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    They share enough of size/colouring/markings/height/weight/temperament to be recognised and classed as a breed.
  12. Borderdawn

    Borderdawn New Member

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    Dawn
    1. With puppies testing affected for inherited eye disease, are the parents being excluded from future breeding programs.

    2. Have the owners of these puppies been told that potentially, their dogs could be blind by adulthood, how did they take that news and what precautions are in place to ensure these problems are not passed on in future.

    3. Why are affected adults (eye disease) being included in breeding programs when it is wholly irresponsible?

    4. Can you explain what exactly you hope to achieve by using new dogs when as it is no two Utes are the same. They appear to be a class of "any variety Ute." What will be achieved by using more dogs, and are the breeders of these dogs in agreement with you using them?
  13. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim New Member

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    Liesl
    1) What are the names of all the experts you claim to have consulted?

    2) Why would your specialist say you can safely breed from dogs with eye folds when everyone else says they should be excluded from being bred from?

    3) Crossing Utes individually with GSD, Sibe and Mal is going to produce vastly different temperamented dogs, how can you call them all British Utonagans and how will you know what traits each of these individual matings will produce?

    4) Will all potential new owners be made aware that their new pups are experiments and you have no idea how they will turn out?

    5) Why can't breeders keep all the pups they produce? Wouldn't that be the best way to watch how they grow?

    6) Why not just admit the Ute has too many health problems and just love the dogs you have and leave them to die out?

    7) How can a 'breed' hope to survive when it is surrounded but such bitterness, mistrust and back stabbing?
  14. alady??

    alady?? New Member

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    Lanie
    :evil: Hi guys, Alady?? here.... I would have replied yesterday but strangley found that I could not access my log on, nor reset my password nor register with my home email address??!!

    I would first like to thank you all for your keen interest in our dogs, but sadly will decline the questions and answers on this forum, for reasons already discussed, removal of posts, editing and now not allowing me to even log in when in fct it was Azz that initiated this thread!! says it all really.

    As I have said on numerous occasion I have no problems whatsoever answering any questions regarding the British Utonagan and if you all wish to know these answers you will find them all on The British Utonagan Web-site and forum, we are only too happy to answer openly and honestly.

    I also would like to note that I know it is against Dogsey rules fr multiple user names but as I said I cannot access with my old one.

    Hopefully this post will be left as is and any genuine enquirers will come and ask.

    Kind regards
    Lanie
    British Utonagan Association x
  15. Tupacs2legs

    Tupacs2legs New Member

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    layla
    i know this will be removed,and i may get banned... Alady you are a joke!!..u could just answer the questions..or are they 'too close to home'........ its all a farce...u want blind followers without brains and questions....a shame its living things you are playing with!!!
  16. Lionhound

    Lionhound

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    Lorna
    Wont.......more like cant.

    Now there's a surprise, your not going to answer the questions...........you certainly have the key quality needed to breed NI/Ute/BI crosses.

    These poor, poor dogs :evil:
  17. Alphatest

    Alphatest Adminstrator

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    • Your accounts have been merged as we do not allow multiple accounts.
    • I find it odd that you didn't used the contact form to enquire about the 'problems' with your account when you are quick to use it to complain about posts!
    • Nobody has changed anything about your 'alady??' account - if you've forgotten your password use the password reset option. If you're not getting the reset email check your spam folder or ask your ISP why they are censoring your emails. Failing that, use the contact form to request a password be reset manually.

    I am also extending the questions session over the one week limit until further notice - I think it's better to have all the questions in one place if possible than littered in lots of threads.
  18. crestnut

    crestnut New Member

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    lynda
    Azz seems pointless asking questions when Alady does not wish to answer Mmmm Then again this thread will be beneficial to anyone interested in owning these dogs as it shows the Ute Society for exactly what it is by Alady's avoiding answering questions reactions.
  19. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim New Member

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    Liesl

    Say's it all really, doesn't it!:roll:
  20. DevilDogz

    DevilDogz Member

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    DevilDogz
    Agreed - I would be very shocked if anyone was actually expecting them to answer in the first place.
  21. Tassle

    Tassle New Member

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    Well your post has certainly said it all for me. How sad that, as someone who openly wanted discussions, you are not willing to respond.
    What hope have these dogs got :009:

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