Flea and Tick preventatives Health

Discussion in 'General Dog Chat' started by Malka, Jun 5, 2017.

  1. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Flea and Tick preventatives

    I have always used Frontline Plus Spot-on apart from the one time my Vet decided that Pereg should wear a Seresto collar. The least said about that, the better.

    But Tikva has a very short coat and it is difficult to get Frontline actually on her skin, and although she has only picked up three ticks [no doubt brought into the yard by stray dogs] which have been easy to remove as they were only nymphs and had not yet attached, I have now seen a couple of fleas on her. She has not been scratching and I have not seen any signs of fleas in her crate - but it seems obvious that spot-on treatment for such a short-coated dog is not the answer.

    Having spoken to Ram yesterday he has suggested two things - both against fleas and ticks and both being tablets. One is a monthly treatment, one lasts for three months.

    NEXGUARD [or NEXGARD] and the other BRAVECTO. I have looked both up and there does not appear to be any contra-indications or bad side effects on either, but so far I can not find any comments, pros or cons, from users.

    Has anyone heard of either of these products, and if so, can you please tell me what you think of them? Needless to say, after the disaster with Pereg and the Seresto collar, I am hesitant to try an unknown product on Tikva. Ram says they are both OK but then he also thought the Seresto collar was OK as it was not contra-indicated. But of course he was not using one on a seizure dog and these products are, so I believe, only recently approved by the Ministry of Agriculture for flea and tick preventatives.

    Any information would be gratefully received. Thank you.
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  3. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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  4. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Thank you for that link Vee - one thing stood out like a big Warning [with a capital W]. Seizures. And no way am I prepared to use a product on Tikva that might cause seizures. Not after my beloved Pereg.

    Diatomaceous earth powder might be good for fleas [but I do not think that sprinkling it around my home will do much for my allergies] and it does not affect ticks.

    For the moment I am using Frontline Plus Spot-on but as I cannot actually get it onto Tikva's skin I am emptying the things onto my hands and trying to rub it on to her. Sort of what I did for her, Lexi and Pereg with the spray before they were old enough to use the Spot-on for them. And Tikva is not covered with fleas - I have only seen a couple, the same with ticks. But then my yard is not enclosed so all sorts of loose and dumped dogs can and do wander in, bringing Hades knows what they bring in with them.

    Ram is due here in just over three weeks time, for Tikva's yearly boosters, her three-monthly Parkworm shot, and her six-monthly Drontal Plus worm pill. More than enough for a little tiddler but none have ever affected her. And four weeks after that lot it will be her yearly rabies shot.

    But I know those are OK for her and that she has never had a reaction. I just do not know about these flea/tick pills now.

    The problem is that there is no definitive reports of them possibly causing seizures, and I cannot take the risk. Pereg, who was a mutt of unknown origin, developed idiopathic epilepsy. Tikva is a cross-breed Dachshund/Minpin, both of which are known to have epilepsy in their genes. And much as I adore Tikva, as I loved my beloved Pereg so much, I know that I could never cope with another seizure dog.

    Until you have lived with one, you possibly would not understand. But I cannot take the risk with little Tikva.
  5. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    I have no personal experience of these tablets as the last time I had a dog with fleas was Mia the Lurcher, about 12 years ago. I realise I've been lucky, but I just used a flea shampoo, powdered her mattress, and sprayed the crevices with a household spray. We would only ever check for ticks if we had been amongst bracken in sheep or deer country. However, you live in a different climate, and even here, the situation has changed. The risk of tick borne diseases is now taken much more seriously, and tablets you mention are in quite common use. I understand that any side effects are minimal, but there is always an undercurrent of gossip against this type of product - the same type you can hear about vaccination.
    Fleas are a nuisance, but I would worry if my dogs were picking up ticks. I had a look at the unbiased Bravecto Side Effects, on www.Veterinaryplace.com > dog-medicine, and the major risk seems to be v & d (though admittedly there have been more scary things reported). It is always a difficult judgement, but on balance, I think I would trust Ram, and give it a try. You can always discontinue if it doesn't suit Tikva.
  6. Malka

    Malka Member

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    I have just spoken with Ram again and even though he does now accept that the Seresto collar was BAD for both Pereg and I, he still thinks that either the monthly or three-monthly pills would be safe for Tikva. But then he thought the Seresto collar would be OK for Pereg because Bayer did not give the correct Ivrit information on the tin.

    I cannot shampoo Tikva with an anti-flea stuff because I cannot bath her, not having a bathtub. And I can not spray the place with anti-flea stuff without me ending up in hospital due to major allergic reactions. And no, I am not joking or making light of it. Been there, done that, nearly died from major life threatening allergic reactions. I love Tikva too much to risk anything to happen to her, and I know only too well what happened to Baby Ziva when I last ended up in hospital due to a major allergic angioedema attack from a previous "safe" Resprim Forte uti antibiotic.

    Tikki is due to be Frontlined today and I will somehow rub it into her skin. Ram will be here probably on 27 or 28 of this month for her shots and stuff, and will bring both the flea/tick pills with him so we can discuss what is best for her. As she has to have the Parkworm shot every three months it will be better that she has the three-monthly flea/tick pills at the same time.

    My brain is going loopy with what that poor little puppy has to have, and it is all because of the fact that my front yard cannot be enclosed and all sorts of stray and loose [and dumped] dogs get in.

    My Tikki Tikva will be the last little one who will ever share my life with me, and I am terrified that something will happen to her when I give her something new.

    And I do not know what to do.
  7. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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    As you were only supposed to put it in on one spot ,I'd be worried about rubbing it on her as there is the possibility of her licking it.
  8. Pork1epe1

    Pork1epe1 Member

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    I always apply the spot on to the back of the neck where they can't lick it. With Georgina having a bit of a ruff round her neck and Gwylim having thick wiry hair I doubt whether much of the liquid actually touches the skin. It seems to work though despite us having no fleas and very few ticks over here. I use Fypryst which is a Slovakian product.
  9. Malka

    Malka Member

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    @GsdSlave and @Pork1epe1 there is no way Tikva can lick where I apply the Frontline as she cannot reach the back of her neck. I just cannot part her coat in order to apply it directly to her skin.

    What I have done is put the Frontline onto a finger and then "paint" it onto her skin - or as much as her skin as I can find. And hope that it will do. I am not really happy with what I have read about the pills, even though I do trust Ram. But then I trusted him about the Seresto collar although that was not his fault as Bayer had not put the c/i on it.

    In the meantime I have checked the little booga all over and not seen even one flea. But my front yard is in a mess and there are stray dogs wandering about, and I do not want to risk Tikva picking up things.
  10. Chris B

    Chris B Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    If you google Frontline Plus and siezures, you will see that there is the same risk.

    Unfortunately, no matter what we use, there will be some dogs that react badly
  11. Malka

    Malka Member

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    I know Chris, but Pereg's seizures were just idiopathic epilepsy and Frontline Plus never affected her. She had been Frontlined, first spray and then the Spot-on since she came here at about 6 weeks old, and did not have her first seizure until she was two years and three months old. And she was Frontlined on the 1st of every month except for December and February.

    There is a risk in everything. Both for humans and for dogs. But Pereg was fine with Frontline whereas she was definitely not with the Seresto collar - neither was I. Me bad for not having checked it properly but I will not blame Ram as the c/i were not mentioned.

    I think that what I will do in future is go back to the Frontline spray, used for young puppies, which can be gently sprayed and massaged in. I honestly am hot happy with the idea of monthly or three-monthly pills for Tikva - although I do not know why. I just know that my little girl has to have more than enough preventative medication which, so far, have not had any reaction - and I do not want to take any more risks. I just love her too much and I am terrified at the thought that something could cause seizures.

    I loved Pereg so much and I did everything I could for her. But being totally honest I could not do it again. Much as I love my Tikki Tikva.
  12. Chris B

    Chris B Member

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    Jade was short haired so I know the problem. My old vet used to apply it on her in four blobs (if that makes sense) rather than in one big one. All the 'blobs' in the same general area (between the should blades/base of neck). If Tikva will stand still long enough, that may work for her too
  13. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Chris - it is not so much that Tikva is so short haired, it is more that I cannot part her hair to get to her skin.
  14. Chris B

    Chris B Member

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    Do you have any rubber gloves? Sometimes they help when trying to get the very short hairs out of the way
  15. Malka

    Malka Member

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  16. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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    Touch wood’ I rarely have a problem with fleas/ticks, I don't like putting strong chemicals in/on my dogs if not needed and only use chemical treatment if necessary, for many years ive used Dyna-mite as a spray https://www.doghealth.co.uk/products/dyna-mite

    I guess it boils down to if your dog is prone to getting fleas/ticks as these natural products only repel and don’t kill.
  17. Malka

    Malka Member

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    I never had flea or tick problems with Lexi or Pereg. Lexi had a tick on her when she came to me as a little puppy, and one more a few years later. Pereg had one tick only, between her toes, [found by the nurse at the surgery when she was clipping Pereg's claws - hence Ram suggesting the Seresto collar] and neither had problems with fleas.

    Tikva has had three ticks, all on her face, but each time they were still nymphs and had not yet attached, so were easy to remove. I only actually saw a couple of fleas on her which I promptly pinched off and deaded, and I have checked her axillas and groin and not seen any sign of any others. But then I Frontlined her again [a week early] so have no idea whether it has worked or not.

    I have been reading up on both Braveco and Nexgard and I will have to discuss it with Ram again. In the meantime she has had no reaction from the early dose of Frontline so maybe I will have to stay with that.

    I just do not know what to do for the best. :102:
  18. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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    I don't think there's one that's clearly ‘the best’ or ‘the safest’ different dogs can have a reaction to any of them.
  19. Chris B

    Chris B Member

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    I'm pretty sure that Frontline do a spray too if you're wanting an alternative to a spot on and something that you know she's tolerated so far
  20. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Phil likes this.
    Currently on Dogsey.
    A thread regarding a dog which vomited 30 mins. after the vet gave her a tablet (?) to prevent fleas. The vet said that the sickness was due to travelling, and having had the dose on an empty stomach, but the dog has had loose motions and poor appetite since. The OP is now reporting a rash on the underparts which may or may not be connected. She has been advised to return to vet for advice.
    I still believe that cases of intolerance are few and far between, and this may well turn out to have nothing to do with the oral flea treatment, but I feel obliged to pass the info on to you.
  21. Malka

    Malka Member

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    The Frontline spray is what I used when my lot were little pups, before they were old enough for the Spot-on. And Yehuda from the little pet store downtown has just brought me one! Of course all the instructions have been covered up by a sticky label in Ivrit but I will check it in the morning, thanks to Google.

    IIRC it had to be spritzed all over except for face and genitals, rubbed in against the [what is the word?] growth of the hair. And not where a pup could lick it, not that mine ever did. And then hands washed well.

    And that is the thing. Neither Lexi, Pereg, Baby Ziva for the 11 days she was with me, not Tikva, ever reacted to Frontline. And I am 99.9999% sure that Frontline Plus had nothing to do with Pereg's Idiopathic Epilepsy. Because even after that started I still carried on using it and the only thing that she [and I] had a reaction to was that bdooly Seresto Collar.

    It depends on which of the oral anti flea/tick the dog had. All medications can have bad side effects and yes, such cases of intolerances just happen. However, the vet in question should have known that you do NOT give such oral medications on an empty stomach, let alone when the dog might be stressed having had to travel to the Vet. Upset stomachs, loose motions and poor appetite can be a possible side effect but if the medication is given with food, which it should have been, then it should not have happened.

    When Michal was Tikva's primary vet she gave her a different worm pill, not the Drontal Plus, and within an hour Tikki threw up like you do not want to know what. And yet Tikki had had the pill with her breakfast. Michal came back the following day, gave her Drontal Plus and no problem. The other pill was supposed to be the same as Drontal Plus but Tikki's tummy said no. Since then she has only had Drontal Plus with no problem.

    As Ram has to come here every three months to give Tikva the Parkworm shot, I am now considering carrying on with Frontline, using the spray this time. He will check her over [he is far stronger than I am and the little booga does rollypollys when I try to check her] he will be able to see if she still has any fleas. His eyesight is also far better than mine.

    But I still do not know for sure what to do.

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