Paranoia, Hysteria, Repetitive Behavior, Fright, Put my dog down Health

Discussion in 'Australian Cattle Dog' started by Jose Prado, Jan 25, 2016.

  1. Jose Prado

    Jose Prado New Member

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    OhBoy

    Paranoia, Hysteria, Repetitive Behavior, Fright, Put my dog down

    Hello
    Recently I nearly put my ACD down. I'll explain.
    I was using power tools in my garage as I typically do and my ACD would run in to bark at my electric compressor, air nail gun, drill. I ignored her as I usually do. This time I used the tools longer than usual as I am in the process of building cabinets for my garage/shop.

    I walked out to check my dog as she had been quiet for quite some time.
    She was pacing in a repetitive path for about an hour - 730pm to 830pm.
    I trapped her with my hands.
    She escaped.
    She began to circle as if chasing her tail.
    She did this for about 3 hours to about 1130pm.
    I took her to a 24 hour animal hospital.
    She was given a sedative.
    In the morning I took her to a near by animal hospital.
    The circling would NOT stop when I picked her up in the late afternoon.
    The circling had stopped somewhat.
    It returned as soon as the phenobarbituate (prescribed by vet) subsided at about 2AM.
    I gave her another pill.
    In the morning she looked a lot better - I was under the impression that there was no hope and that I would have to put her to sleep.
    When she gets excited the circling appears to begin anew.
    I hold her and stroke her chest and she finally calms down.
    I can't use my drill, nail gun, air compressor w/o frightening her.
    Motorcycles REALLY scare her.
    She becomes agitated w/ children riding by on their bikes or skateboards.
    What to do?
    Help.
    My dog and I thank you.
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  3. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Azz and Pork1epe1 like this.
    When you say ACD I presume you mean Australian Cattle Dog [and I think you are in the US?] If so, Phenobarbiturate [Phenobarbitol] is prescribed for epileptic dogs and ACDs in the US are being slowly lost through epilepsy. And your poor dog is showing all signs of some form of it. No vet would just prescribe that drug for any other reason. It is not a sedative it is a lifetime of regular doses, usually every 12 hours, and should never be given just as a sedative, because it is not one.

    If the dog has not had blood tests to rule out other things, it should not have been given Pheno. And you cannot just give one and then another when the first one has worn off. It is a for-life drug. Stop it and the symptoms recur.

    Incidentally, how old is your dog and what do you know about her dam and sire?
  4. Azz

    Azz Adminstrator

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    Did any of the vets you saw mention epilepsy at all? As Malta says, Phenobarb is a very effective drug for epilepsy but only when given at regularly intervals (as a certain amount of it needs to be in the blood at all times). When we got the dosage right for my dog he was fit-free for over 6 years.

    Can you upload videos to YouTube? Might be worth us taking a look.
  5. Jose Prado

    Jose Prado New Member

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    Thank you each for your kind response.
    I'm in a bit of a rush and can't post the videos I took nor really respond.
    I suggested the possibility of epilepsy but the doc said the symptoms she saw at her clinic didn't correspond to the condition.
    I'll take her in tomorrow for blood test.
    She became flustered and circling (though not as frantically) last night w/ a motorcycle that kept passing through the adjacent alley. She calmed down once I captured and held her.

    I'll let the doc know about this post exchange.

    Thank you each very much
  6. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Azz likes this.
    There are different types of canine epilepsy and knowing what I learned [it "helps" to have an epileptic Vet although he had brain surgery and does not have seizures now, but he still says he is epileptic], I learned as much as I could about it. My beloved epi had major Grand Mal seizures but there are other types, and repetitive behaviour is a definite sign of one or more types. It is also a sign of the after-effects of a GM seizure, even if you have not seen the seizure itself.

    My Vet never even saw my girl having a seizure but he asked enough questions not to doubt me. And he did not give her pheno straight away in case it was a one-off.

    I eventually realised she had had enough and my Vet came round at 1am on 1 April last year to give her peace. She was 6 years and 3 months old and had had her first Grand Mal seizure on 1 April four years earlier.

    Unfortunately Pheno, which she had to have three times a day for the last three years as she needed a lot for her weight, could not help her. But believe me, most vets, even a lot of canine neurologists, do not know much more than a basic blood test can tell - which will not tell if a dog is epileptic. Even a video will not show the various epi types - unless the dog is having a major GM seizure which is unmistakable.

    @Azz - 1+1=2. But here we have 3. Firstly the behaviour. Very common in certain types of canine epilepsy. Secondly the fact that the dog is an ACD and believe me when I say that the breed is being lost in the US due to epilepsy, which is why I asked whether the OP lived in the US - and thirdly a vet handing out pheno after such a short time? Pheno is only ever prescribed for epilepsy, never as a sedative or tranquiliser, and only when the dog definitely has epilepsy.

    My wonderful Vet taught me a heck of a lot, bless him.
  7. Pork1epe1

    Pork1epe1 Member

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    I was going to reply by saying that I have a dog that used to react in the same way as your ACD, and she didn't have epilepsy but had developed highly sensitive hearing to compensate for her being (temporarily) blind. I then remembered seeing a thread on another forum about hyper sensitive hearing in certain breeds of dog and decided to look it up.

    So here goes! From what I read ....

    "Some dogs have a genetic disposition to sound sensitivity and phobias Certain breeds are known to be more likely to develop such sensitivity. It is especially prevalent in herding breeds". Now for the interesting bit .... Australian Cattle Dogs are listed as one of the breeds along with German Shepherds and Border Collies

    There's not much information about it online, and maybe it's something your vet isn't aware of. I learn about it quite by chance.

    Hope that helps!
  8. Bulldogs4Life

    Bulldogs4Life Member

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    Azz likes this.
    The dog very well may have epilepsy and you would know a lot more about it then I. However, phenobarbital is also used as a sedative for dogs and the vet did not think the dog has epilepsy (even though the owner suggested it and the vet could be wrong, they don't always make the right diagnosis). I think the blood test will be their best bet, because if the dog is epileptic they are going to need continued treatment.
  9. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    There may well be better drugs these days, but Sodium Phenobarbitone was the standard prescription for firework anxiety when I was a gal.
    Not had a firework phobic since the '70's, so don't know what they give these days.
  10. Jose Prado

    Jose Prado New Member

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    Thanks again for your responses.
    I have 2 short videos - about 10 seconds each - of my dogs' condition.
    That's right, dogs' condition.
    I can't upload it via the "Upload a File" button.
    My older dog, Chata, is running up and down the yard now - and has been since about 1030pm.
    My daughter found a cracker w/ peanut butter in the yard which no one here left for the dogs.
    I'm taking that cracker to the vet - maybe it will help.
    My puppy - 2 months old - is circling today and has been since my wife got home.
    I'm taking them both in tomorrow.
    I'll keep you posted.
    I smell a rat in the neighborhood!
  11. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    I hope that the vet can identify what, (if anything), is in the cracker. I'm sure you will not be letting them out unsupervised till you have got to the bottom of this.
    Best wishes, I hope your dogs are soon back to normal.
  12. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Are you now saying that you have two dogs behaving erratically? is the puppy the daughter of the older one?

    I do not know about smelling a rat in the neighbourhood but I do hope both Chata and the puppy will be OK.
  13. Jose Prado

    Jose Prado New Member

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    The puppy is not the older one's daughter.
    I'm heartbroken about this as is my family.
    I'll keep posting.
  14. Bulldogs4Life

    Bulldogs4Life Member

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    So possibly they are suffering from nuero damage? I hope the vet has answers for you.
  15. Bulldogs4Life

    Bulldogs4Life Member

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    It is one of the oldest tranquilizers, but they usually prescribe something else now days for minor issues. Acepromazine is very common, in the case of my Boxer they had to give him Valium as ace is dangerous to them.

    Phenobarbital is still used as a sedative for dogs at times and also to treat OCD in dogs.
  16. Jose Prado

    Jose Prado New Member

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    That is the possibility that the doctor offered to me.
    I had blood taken today.
    Results about liver condition come in tomorrow.
    Thanks again.
  17. Jose Prado

    Jose Prado New Member

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    Results:
    Over exertion - likely on account of the repetitive behavior and sleepless nights
    Some damage to the liver - subsequent blood test will indicate if the damage is from a pre-existing condition, a consequence of the phenobarbital, or some other toxin.

    For now I pursue a police report and will unfortunately have to camera my yard...
  18. Pork1epe1

    Pork1epe1 Member

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    At least you seem to be getting to the cause of your dogs behaviour. I hope it isn't anything too serious.

    As there appears to be some liver damage, it might be worth discussing with the vet about giving your dog Milk Thistle to support and help repair any damage caused.
  19. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    I hope the second blood test provides answers some of your questions.
    CCTV is a good idea in the meantime. I hope your dogs are recovering now.
  20. Jose Prado

    Jose Prado New Member

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    Thanks all for your in-put.
    The doctor recommended half a pill of phenobarbital as I see her becoming erratic/paranoid/frantic/frightened. The prescription was reduced to 32mg per pill and the one pill I gave her the other day knocked her out for about 12 hours. So, I suggested the half pill approach and the doctor recommended for me to do so. I just don't want to see her asleep and sedated...

    Thanks again

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