Spay incontinence Health

Discussion in 'General Dog Chat' started by Malka, Oct 7, 2016.

  1. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Spay incontinence

    I know this is not unknown among bitches who were older when spayed, especially if they have had some litters, so I have been doing as much research as I can about Tikva, and one site says that bitches spayed under the age of 6 months can also have spay incontinence.

    But it does not add up. I did not want Tikva spayed until 3 months after her first season but both Michal, who was then her primary vet, and Ram, the owner and chief vet, who was wonderful with Pereg and who now comes to do all Tikki's shots etc, both wanted Tikki spayed as soon as she weighed 6 kg because she goes out on her tether and there are too many loose/stray dogs around.

    So she was spayed when she was 6½ months old - a very healthy 6 kg puppy. She now weighs 6.700 kg unless Ram did not check my scales when he came to give her the Parkworm shot. She has grown a bit but she is a rock-solid little girl who still looks skinny!

    She has been difficult to house train which is why I still keep a puppy pad in the salon. Not that she uses it much but it is there if necessary. She does not leak in her sleep - she has never so much as dribbled when she dozes on the couch during the day after having had a mad couple of hours, and she knows that if the door is closed and she needs a pee, to go to it and eep to be let out.

    The problem is that she will pee - not dribble but a full pee in her crate, maybe a couple of times a week. Never poo - she eeps loud enough to waken even me, who is hard of hearing. But sometimes I have to get up for the loo and it is too late to go back to bed, so I catch up on things on the computer so maybe she is eeping for a pee and I do not hear her? My PC is in my salon, her crate is in my bedroom the other end of the bungalow.

    Does anyone think that is is because I line her crate with a pee pad that she thinks it is OK to pee in there? She has a sleep pad or blanket the other end which she curls up on to sleep and it is not a small crate. Or maybe because I do not hear her eep because I have not gone back to bed?
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  3. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    Pork1epe1 likes this.
    I think Tikva is too young to be starting with spay incontinence. Even when bitches have been spayed as juveniles, this usually comes on later in life.
    Some people think that puppy pads do encourage dogs to use them, and say that they are impregnated with, 'do it here' chemicals. I tend to think it is more likely that the little monkeys know they can get away with having a quick wee, without having to lie in a puddle, and this makes them a little more casual about the need to hang on.
    Merry has what appears to be twice yearly (cyclical?), spay incontinence. She never makes any attempt to wake me when it happens, - but perhaps that is because she doesn't have any warning. I crate her at night with several layers of newsprint, cover with a towel, and top with Vetbed - which allows any wet to pass through. She did have a memory foam mattress, but they are so hard to get dry, so she only has one in her day bed these days.
  4. Malka

    Malka Member

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    I have a load of old towels that I could use to line Tikva's crate, but then I would have to wash them. Bone idle me. But I did get 600 free pee pads for her crate Do Not Ask and she does not just leak but if I do not let her our early enough as when I am up early and do not hear her eep, she floods her crate. I do not think that is spay incontinence, I think that is Tikki saying she pee'd before she went to bed and she wants to pee NOW.

    Nothing I have read sounds like spay incontinence even though she was very young, too much too young for my liking - I just thing she pees because she needs to and because her crate is large enough.

    Maybe.

    She really is a strange little puppy.
  5. Chris B

    Chris B Member

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    She's not strange at all, Malka. Just the opposite. She needs to wee and can't alert you early enough so does what comes naturally to her :).

    It sounds as though she is clean through the day? so perhaps can be forgiven for using the pad at night.

    Doesn't sound at all like any type of incontinence to me, just a young dog who's worked out a system that works for her
  6. Malka

    Malka Member

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    I think you are correct Chris - I just wondered if she though pee pads were OK to pee on and yes, she is clean through the day although there is still one pee pad in the salon in case of emergency [she is on her tether all day as the door is partially open. And it definitely is not just leakage, when she goes she GOES!

    My problem is worrying - and checking - far too much - and finding that juvenile, ie under 6 months spaying can cause spay incontinence although I am sure Ram would not have spayed her when he did if he had any worries.

    Tikva is the most stubborn [horrible] impossible to train puppy I have ever had, which is probably because she was far too young to have been taken from her dam and siblings. But she is strong - oh so strong for a little one - healthy B"H and happy. I know she is clever and she is so affectionate - but she does what she wants to do and there is no way I can train her, so I guess I have to accept the little booga as she is.

    I know I would never be without her. My little Tikva. My Hope.
  7. Chris B

    Chris B Member

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    Rosie uses a pad at night. Totally 'clean' throughout the day. I could crate her at night and for her it would solve it, but I prefer her to have her choice of where to sleep :)

    My old girl Jade was spayed at 5 months because she broke her leg and the vet thought it wise to spay under the one anaesthetic rather than undergo two. Rosie was spayed at 6 months because she needed an x-ray so same reasoning. Jade never had any problems and neither, so far, has Rosie
  8. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Maybe I should stop worrying Chris, especially as I feel guilty as I have not asked after your son.

    It is just that Tikki is maybe a bit special as I know that after Pereg she will be my last ever puppy. Dog now really at her age, especially having lost Baby Ziva just 11 days after she came here, just one month after after Pereg had to be given peace. But for me Tikki is still a puppy, and she is quite happy in her crate at night.

    I think it is my fault if she pees in her crate, which is only maybe twice a week, sometimes even that. I have never - sorry, forgot the word - said I was cross with her? I have more than enough pee pads and sleep pads or blankies for the other end of her crate, which is where she curls up.

    Her night crate. Where she wants to sleep and is happy in. So I guess if she wants to pee in it in the non-sleeping end so is it important? It can not be spay incontinence or she would just leak, and leak during the day when she has a doze on the couch.

    Can it?
  9. GsdSlave

    GsdSlave Member

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    Malka and CaroleC like this.
    Heiko has a memory foam mattress, before his op he used to leave wet patches so I covered it with waterproof cover, and then put his vet bed on top worked a treat.
  10. Chris B

    Chris B Member

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    Hi Malka. No I don't think for a minute that it is spay incontinence (or any other incontinence). Just a clever little dog that has found her own system :)

    Is it important? NO, not if you are able to cope with it.

    Like little Tikva, Rosie is my last dog and it would be easy to get overly concerned with minor things.

    My son isn't doing too well at the moment. His fits are increasing so it will be back to the neurologist soon to see what can be done - if anything
  11. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Chris - I do not think I can say anything about your son, and I think you understand why. I just send you and him my love and my prayers. Probably more than I have ever said. Not just because of Pereg but because of so many lost human babies and those disabled ones.

    Pereg was special to me and somehow I coped, until it was time to give her peace.

    Tiikki is not easy. Small but difficult to train.

    And if you understood how long it took me to type this and i still have not said I wanted to say. And said nothing,

    No good, Sorry
  12. CaroleC

    CaroleC Member

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    That is a good idea Vee. I actually bought her one of those black, waterproof Tuff beds, but neither of them will use it - I think because it is a little too springy. Thanks to Propalin, we actually have very few wet beds these days, (she has only ever wet during the night), so as soon as she does start to wet, I pop her back on her drops, and taper them off again over a month or so. Even the vet is beginning to think that it is a six monthly cycle.
    We do still have the dilute urine mystery, - hence the recent general blood profile - the results of which turned out to be completely normal.
  13. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Because Tikva has a small crate although plenty big for her, she wants to pee in it I am not going to complain. Vet bed is just too expensive for me.

    Please excuse typos - eyes not good. sorry
  14. mjfromga

    mjfromga Member

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    Jade is super old and springs the occasional leak when she's excited or scared. She's unintelligent and spent much of her life outdoors so never fully got the hang of house training. Every now and then, she'll do a full out wee all over the rug. Same goes with poo. Taking her out often reduces these to once every few months, but still. She will NEVER EVER potty in her crate no matter what. If someone catches her pottying on the floor and reacts... "Oh, no Jade...." she will run to the crate. She's never punished for it, but of course it's like ewww when it happens. Nigredo is an early pediatric neuter (before 15 weeks) but I've never heard of neuter incontinence. I'd be horrified if he peed all over in his sleep - he sleeps on my bed!
  15. Pork1epe1

    Pork1epe1 Member

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    CaroleC likes this.
    Well whatever it was causing Georgina to wee in her sleep has now cleared up ... thank goodness! I have a suspicion it was stress related as it started shortly after she'd had an Xray for a suspected torn cruciate ligament.

    Despite another Xray, ultrasound and urine analysis my vet couldn't find a reason why she was weeing in her sleep. As he didn't want to give her more antibiotics he decided to prescribe her a high dosage of Glucosamine and Cystopro (which I can only get from the UK) and wonder of wonders, she immediately started to get better and to date hasn't wet her bed for nearly two months now!
  16. Malka

    Malka Member

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    Tikva does not pee in her sleep - she is awake when she does it. And it is always at the "other" end of her crate, not the end where she has a sleep pad or folded blankie.

    It does not really bother me - just a matter of taking out the wet pee pads and putting in fresh ones. I was just worried in case it was spay incontinence.

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