To Crop or not to crop. That is the question. General Chat

I have read the link but in all honesty it’s meaningless the information on it has been gleamed from other sources with NO Scientific backup.[/QUOTE]
Once again why do you care what I do with my dog ? I don't care what you do with yours and that article give plenty of good things. My dog doesn't have a tail I don't care that yours does. Proof is in the pudding. I have a perfectly healthy cropped and docked dog.

I have read the link but in all honesty it’s meaningless the information on it has been gleamed from other sources with NO Scientific backup.[/QUOTE]

Please read this link. https://dpca.org/PublicEd/the-doberman/ears/

Granted, this is from Doberman pinscher club of America so obviously some different standards and views than that of the UK but it explains the functionality behind docking and cropping, and how it is not only the classic "look" of the dog, but the reasons WHY it is the look of the dog (ie the functional reasons why it was docked and cropped in the first place)

Point being we all have our opinions. Missboo and I are NOT telling anyone they are wrong for not docking or cropping, were merely defending our opinions... And honestly we shouldn't feel the need to defend what we chose. You want floppy ears? Great! Keep them floppy! We don't, for our own reasons, so let it be at that. Were merely stating our own experiences. I have owned both cropped and uncropped and can say from experience with both, I prefer cropped for many reasons.

Please read this link. https://dpca.org/PublicEd/the-doberman/ears/

Granted, this is from Doberman pinscher club of America so obviously some different standards and views than that of the UK but it explains the functionality behind docking and cropping, and how it is not only the classic "look" of the dog, but the reasons WHY it is the look of the dog (ie the functional reasons why it was docked and cropped in the first place)[/QUOTE]
I don't personally see why they care what someone else's preferences are for something they own honestly. You don't like it that's your opinion but keep it to yourself and stop arguing all these insane ridiculous ideologies that some person decided. Cropping isn't cruel. So stop telling me what my dog should look like when I'm not doing that to you. I don't tell you how to dress, to work out, to get tattoos, nothing so why do you all get to tell someone that crops THEIR dogs anything ? Keep it to yourself.

It is solely up to a member of they don't wish to post any longer. I don't think anyone should let a single accusatory poster scare them away.

I don't always trust everything a vet says. Practicing they would know if it seems that there is the ear infection issue though. Using reliable sources & data shouldn't be discounted either. That doesn't mean you don't crop of you like the look, but I wouldn't claim a dire risk of infection either.
The AVMA site states as I thought, ear infection is often associated with dermatological diseases and systemic diseases. Also stats show that the breeds with ear infection issues are Crocker Spaniel, Poodle and (the erect ear!) German Shepherd! Drop ears 13-14% incidence and erect 5% incidence. While it shows a reduced incidence, it actually stated that it was dependent on the breed within the group. Cockers and Poodles are more common sufferers of ear infections so they add a lot to the drop stats.
@MissBoo22 I don't think Chris B really has a problem with you cropping only the claim it's for medical purposes. Expecting any anti crop person to change their mind would be like them expecting someone who crop to change theirs.

If I had a bad experience with drop ears or if I didn't know better about saw the about time page I might crop our of fear. To date I have had lots of uncropped dogs....numerous drop ear Pits, American Bulldog, Boerboel (not a cropped breed), Cane Corso, Kangal, 2 Boxers all without ever having ear infections. The female Boxer had bad allergies too but was never victim of dreaded ear infections that can chronically accompany allergies (rhankfully!).

Yes I know but I did not do it just for looks. And a person who doesn't have a problem with cropping also doesn't have a problem with people not cropping that's my point. Is I seriously could careless if someone cropped their dog or not I don't just see why everyone has to get all weird if someone wants to. Not one person here who is pro crop has told anyone to make this choice or bashed them or called them names for keeping floppy ears and yet those who are against are. It doesn't make sense to me. Just cuz it's someone personal preference on their dog doesn't give someone else the right to tell them differently.

It is a forum though so people will share their opinions, agreements, disagreements, ect.
If they kept their opinions to themselves there would be a lot less discussion.

Erm, didn't the original poster as for opinions?

The thread is or has been about discussion. Discussion is what has happened. I don't believe I've attacked you personally, if so, maybe you could point out where and, if warranted, I will gladly apologise.

Yes but stating that it's cruel and getting up in arms about it is ridiculous. Those who aren't for cropping that's fine, don't crop but don't give the whole it's cruel speech when no one can even say why it's cruel, and spays and neuters are not. That's all I'm saying if you don't like cropping I have no problem with that as you should have a problem with someone that is wanting to crop.

I would trust a good breeder every day of the week to give me general information about my breed, but for medical procedures, I trust a vet. I look at it from the point of view that a vet has undergone extensive training in biology and surgical procedures. Horses for courses so to speak.

Opinion yes actual factual opinion on both sides not just one side. Everyone was telling that person not to crop because it's cruel but that's simply not true. I'm glad the discussion took place and we all learned something. I don't wish to argue and fight but I will defend my choices. Will I own a floppy eared dog again I don't know maybe I do think they are cute and have nothing against them as those who don't wish to crop should have anything against those who do just provide advice from both sides. Vets who choose to learn the art of cropping will always be for and those who don't, don't really have to much knowledge on it either way to each their own. If you wanna crop ok. If not that's fine too.

I believe I set out my reasons for both of my standpoints on both issues as have others

And yes I will agree with you here to a point, but I wouldnt trust a foot doctor to perform a heart surgery I'm just saying a practicing ear cropping vet has done hours of training and medical practice so I think they have more validation on the subject then a primary vet. I'm just saying. The vet that did our dog has 40 years experience and I think that counts for something.

Isn't that the beauty of discussion forums, that the issue will be discussed both for and against - which has happened here. That fact that you don't like people advising not to crop because it is an unnecessary and invasive procedure which many consider to be painful doesn't make that position untrue.

It's the issue that has been discussed for the most part. I don't believe in personal attack because, let's face it, it devalues the whole discussion.

Antonio Nores Martinez and Agustin Nores Martinez both stated that the mouth was designed for grabbing and the tail for balance.

There is also if I can find it a animal planet vid about the dogo that show the tail helps them at full speed when hunting with balance.

The new pup will be from one of 2 planned pairings. The first which I'm hoping happens which would be from some great lines that parents of are from SA.

2nd is also from really nice lines and would be great, but the first I know the breeder and his dogs, and he is what really got me into them the last couple of years.

Will be late summer or early fall 2016 as long as all goes well that I should be getting a the new puppy.

So here is a question for you, if cropping is a way to correct a 'deformity' which is frankly the biggest load of BS I've ever heard in defence of cropping.....why haven't breeders bred floppy ears out over the generations? Why fix it the lazy way? I'd have thought breeding out a deformity in any breed is the main priority in any conscientious breeder.

Look, there is nothing wrong with admitting to wanting your dog to look a certain way. We all pick out breeds with looks in mind to a bigger or lesser degree. Do I agree with changing the look of a dog physically? No. But I have more respect for those who hold their hands up and are honest about their beliefs and the reasons why they crop rather than clutch at straws and throw every argument they can on the table and make false statements up. As for the link you have posted a few times, it proves nothing. It's anecdotal at best. If there are these highly raved about health benefits you so adamantly insist are genuine reasons to crop, where are the countless scientific evidence and studies to prove this? I've posted plenty disproving that opinion. Feel free to do the same.

You can also contact the Canadian Kennel Club and the American Kennel Club about changing their breed standards to match the British Kennel Club, which changed their standards to disallow ear cropping and tail docking.

Seem like America will be banning all ear cropping & tail docking soon,

Ear cropping involves cutting off up to two thirds’ of the earflap and is done when the dog is 4-6 months old. It is common among Great Danes, Dobermans, Schnauzers, Boxers, and Miniature Pinschers. After the procedure, which requires full anesthesia, splints and tape are used to hold the ear in an upright position. Ear cropping is not always successful and at times only one ear will stand erect, while the other flops back. There is a risk of infection after the surgery, and the dogs’ behaviour is sometimes negatively affected. The puppy will likely experience post-surgical pain.
Ear cropping has been banned in many countries, particularly in Europe, and is illegal in Newfoundland and Labrador under the 1978 Animal Protection Act. It is also banned in Australia, New Zealand, and Scandinavia. The vast majority are performed only for cosmetic reasons, and despite the fact that some dog owners claim they do it to prevent ear canal infections, there is no medical benefit to having a dog’s ears cropped.

Breeds that commonly have their tails docked are spaniels, some pointers, some working breeds, terriers, and some herding breeds. Some say it is required for dogs with feathered coats for hygiene reasons or for working dogs. This makes no sense as spaniel tails are docked while retrievers are not. Tail docking is not necessary for hygienic reasons or for working dogs, and can be a painful procedure that should not be performed for purely cosmetic reasons. More and more veterinarians are refusing to perform it. A dog’s tail is important both for balance and body language.

Taken from a American dog breeders forum, they are saying that in 5 states of America cropping & docking is already banned.

Sorry 6JRT's.
But no only 2 states that have age restrictions on it, only 14 of the 50 even say it has to be done by a vet.

For ear cropping only 9 states say it must be done by a vet out of 50.

For shows I agree that it should be banned, as I feel the natural state of a dog is a better way to show the quality of it.
I would not be so sure there going to change anytime soon, been a fight about it for 20 years now and breeder/show people/ sponsors and those that attend. will always have more say than the interest groups as there the ones paying the bills.

Until sponsors actually say something, I don't look for a change.

I just copy paste off the American breeders forum so don't know if its 5 or 2 states.
Personally I think it should be banned world wide.