To Crop or not to crop. That is the question. General Chat

Cropping is NOT done at 4-6 months old. It must be done by 12 weeks or the ears will not stand. Infection or a "failed crop" (ears not standing) is typically due to the owner not following through with proper after care. If you take care of and post the ears correctly, there are minimal, if any issues. I have owned, and personally know of a quite a few dobes with cropped ears and can not tell you a single one that either had infection from the crop, or had a crop not stand correctly.

I contacted a FB friend of mine I've known a few years now, originally via another dog forum. She lives in the US and has her dogs ears cropped. I value her opinion on various topics and she is a wealth of experience & knowledge in all matters of dog. Being able to discuss cropping with her on a rational and sensible level, she confirms there are no health benefits to cropping and that the 'it prevents ear infections' does those who defend cropping no favours in defending the practice as it's not evidently true. Her exact words -
"There is a point where both sides start getting silly. Including those arguing my side. Babbling on about tail waggers breaking their tails or the ears being spared from infection. Disingenuous.

Technically speaking, heavy ear leather and long ears can be promoting to ear infections. It's true of Cockers, in example. I suppose there are some dogs out there who may have had an infection were it not for cropped ears. Isolated dogs. However, cropped ear dogs are not immune to ear infections and there is no vet who will advise about health benefits to the same.

Indeed, whereas neither of my Cockers had ear problems, the one dog I had who had chronic ear issues (it was life long, we were always cycling in or out), was a cropped ear dog"

Sorry but your friend has no clue to the issues of happy tail. Can not comment past the mastiff breeds I know, but there is a major issue with tail breaking and the problems that arise from it. This must be weighed vs docking which if not done correctly can and has cause spinal injuries and other problems.

IMO cropping as far as ear infections would help keep it dryer and make cleaning easier, not quite sure how that would be a debatable fact.
My dogs have always had there ears cleaned 1 or 2 times a week, so no I do not have this issue. Also I feed a diet to my dog present and past that helps not have this issue.

I let people decide for themselves and do not judge what they do.

Also for your information I do not crop or dock, as I am able to deal with the issues later if a docking would need to be done due to a broken tail, some may not be able to deal with the financial burden.

I own a English Mastiff which generally is not docked, but they are a breed that suffers from breaking there tails.
My next pup will be a Boerboel, which is general docked, mine will be not be docked, but that is just how I am.

There are real arguments both ways, I just believe many like a certain look and no health issues are not the prime factor.

But for you to post tail breaking is basically not a real issue, is a unreal statement, no clue of the breed or breeds your friend deals with, but let them once deal with a badly infected tail or worse and they will sing another tune.

as is the case with many ear and skin infections. Also anal gland problems and many other ailments our dogs get.

Finding a good quality food (no, not all dogs will eat raw and many don't know how to balance it as a diet anyway) can alleviate so many ailments and prevent them

Very very true. As is many factors which the first time or general owner might not know. Cleaning the ears, brushing there dogs teeth, and actually many don't understand that something as simple as brushing out a dog helps with skin issues.

This does not man it is necessity. I think it's great they are natural. I think I saw what you are talking about on AP program. Tails help aid dogs in balance and maneuvering sure, but that can be true of other breeds too. Including docked dogs. I'd be willing to bet a docked Dogo would be just as good of a catch dog as a natural counterpart. Dogs also adapt well. If it was done young like a normal dock they dog would most certainly do just fine.

Pit dogmen have said the same. Pit Bulls need their tail floor balance. I am sure it does help, but it's not an absolute necessity. I know this said about herding dogs "using" their too but then there are herding breeds without tails.
If you dock it on other dogs, those folks might have used their tails, but it's standard practice to cut turk off.

Either breeding sounds nice. Mouse will have a big play mate. Colors of the potential parents?

It's not ridiculous, the medical field determine what they believe is good by looking at cases and statistics. People go from there and make their own choices such as to circumcise or not, to vaccinate or not, to take a particular medication or not, ect.
I know you are not trying to be, but to say that is also a little insensitive. I realize it was not done in mean spirit, but it's also not factual.
Bathing does not prevent yeast infection or HPV. While basically all individuals have some yeast on/in their body uncircumcised males having foreskin gives the yeast a better breeding ground to get out of control. There can be other contributing factors (just like for women, and clearly they are far more common in women to do the anatomy) but they will be more susceptible and higher likelihood vs a male without foreskin.
HPV is passed between people, many times without any actual symptoms. Though it can lead to cancer. It is extremely common, but the rate is still higher in uncircumcised males at 44% vs circumcised males 29%. The uncircumcised men comprise a smaller part of the population as well.
I know that UTI in women could be due to less hygienic practices or improper wiping routine, but I'm not sure the causes in men. Uncircumcised men however are also more prone to UTI than circumcised men.

Pairing 1 male is fawn with a nice mask/ female is fawn with a very slight mask.
Pairing 2 is brindle male/ female fawn with very dark masking.

I also prefer the look of cropped/ docked dogs but decided to go for the natural look, as I felt there was no need to unnecesarily remove any part of a healthy dog. Anyway ear cropping hasn't been allowed in the UK for a while. And my crossbreed's ears, which are folded, are far cleaner than my min pins upright ones, so the hygiene argument doesn't hold water, not for me anyway.

I chose to have my min pins' tails undocked (in the days when docking was the norm), despite it being very difficult to find a breeder who was happy to have their 'reputation ruined' by not docking.

The disadvantage of wanting an undocked dog was that I was not able to chose the puppy, the breeders chose what they considered right for me, just before they took the litter for docking at around 2 days old. Still, I have never regretted my decision. We have, however, confused a few people, including judges in the show ring.....

Nigredo recently had a TERRIBLE yeast infection in his right ear. It was causing him great distress and he needed ear drops and etc to clear it up. HOWEVER, my previous Labrador mix never once had any ear problems at all in almost 16 years. Would a crop have prevented Nigredos ear infection? No guarantee. Would I ever crop to prevent them? No. Why? Because there isn't any real evidence that it would help and his ears are fine as they are.

The argument that there are true health benefits can really be nixed because A) The evidence supporting that is weak and mostly disproven and B) Most croppers don't even do it for health reasons anyway. If you like the way it looks, keep it real and say you want to do it because you like the way it looks. Dismiss all people who call you cruel, don't add nonsensical "facts" to the argument.

The dogs mostly recover fine from such procedures and most have no ill effects from what I have seen. Any procedure done wrong can cause issues in the long run - and this includes critical or medical procedures. Competence is key with any surgery. Spaying and neutering is the same way. I support it only because of the AWFUL pet overpopulation issue we have.

My male is a pediatric neuter. I got him at 15 weeks already neutered and healed up. He has hip dysplasia (which only worsens with early neutering) and he has a horrible metabolism, also caused by early neutering. Not trying to sound disgusting, but also his penis never developed due to lack of hormone and he looks like a girl dog below despite being 100 lbs. Early neutering is unethical IMO and borderline cruel.

My last dog had some dog aggression issues that probably could have been helped by neutering, and my female the same way which could have probably been helped by spaying. I think the procedures are acceptable when done at proper ages. Almost all dog bites are by unaltered animals. Me? I will never neuter another dog because I think the benefits aren't good enough.

Arguments to both sides work to me. It all can be considered unnecessary and cruel depending on how one looks at it. The difference is that, regardless of what pro croppers are trying to say, there really are not true health benefits to cropping, there just aren't usually any TRUE detriments. Pointed ears are just as expressive (remember natural ears in wolves and wolf type breeds like GSD are perfectly fine) and there's nothing solid behind that from what I can see. It isn't a necessary procedure, but when done correctly, isn't a harmful one.

As for circumcising, there are some noted health benefits, but again they aren't well supported or even truly of importance. It's done here in America for mostly COSMETIC appeal and because people think its "cleaner". They don't truly do it for health purposes. People that do it for religious reasons, the same as many other things done for religious reasons, usually place some kind of symbolism behind it - it isn't done for health reasons in that case, either.

Hi,
New here. I am into my second pinscher. The first , Sprite was with us for 14 years and now I have Ritchie. This is what I think min pin owners are

Hi Lim and Ritchie,
Welcome to Breedia.

CROP

as long as you find a good vet that knows what he is doing and ask if you could see pics of his work

Thats what i would do

This is a UK based forum, and cropping has been banned here since 1899. It is also illegal in most of Europe, and many other countries worldwide, but is still widely practiced in Canada and the USA. Hence the divided opinions in this thread.

@Silas You asked people's advice in the very first post and that is what people have given emotional or not.

Wow. Had I read to the end before posting I would have seen Silas hadn't been back since stirring the pot...

Probably too confused to comment or decide